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  #1  
Old 25-09-20, 02:49
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Transfer Case ID?

Hello. First post here and I'm new to the CMP world. Thanks for having me.

Can someone tell me what transfer case is used in the larger CMP trucks, like the 3 ton 4x4? (I think that's called a C60?) I noticed that it looked a lot like the transfer case used in some IH 4x4 trucks from the 50's (my specialty). That case was also used in some of the WWII scout cars and some other miscellaneous trucks and equipment.

The transfer case I'm referring to is a Timken T32. Some folks call it a Rockwell T32, because Rockwell bought Timken in the mid-50's. Anyway, it looks (to me, from what I can see online) a lot like the 2-speed transfer case I'm seeing in the larger CMP vehicles. Do you agree/disagree?

Here's a link to a T32 parts manual for reference.

http://graphicvillage.org/meritor/pb90202.pdf

Anyone know if the 2-speed transfer case used in the CMP's is in fact a T32 or something else?

While we're on the subject of transfer cases, does anyone know the model of the single speed transfer case used in the smaller CMP vehicles? From what I can see online, it looks very similar to the 2-speed case, just without the shift rail and that box end to the case where the shift rail resides. Are some of the internal parts the same between the two, or are they totally different?

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 25-09-20, 04:55
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
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Default looks the same

I can't see any difference until you get to the brakes.
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  #3  
Old 25-09-20, 05:34
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Ford single and two speed transfer case differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof.Fowler View Post
Hello. First post here and I'm new to the CMP world. Thanks for having me.

While we're on the subject of transfer cases, does anyone know the model of the single speed transfer case used in the smaller CMP vehicles? From what I can see online, it looks very similar to the 2-speed case, just without the shift rail and that box end to the case where the shift rail resides. Are some of the internal parts the same between the two, or are they totally different?

Thanks!
Welcome Geof,

Hope you enjoy your experience here. Plenty of people who can answer your questions in a very collegial manner.

I don't know the model of the single speed transfer case but the same one was used in Both Ford and Chevy's.

Without going through every part, basically caps, shims, bearings and cones, seals and gaskets are mostly the same.
The internal shafts are different between the two types. Both type use the same driven gear but the single speed uses two of them. Both type use the same idler gear too. The speedometer driven and drive gears are also different between the two models.
The front wheel declutch units are the same on both transfer cases.
The case itself is very much different to accommodate the low range gear and shifting arrangements.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,
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Last edited by Jacques Reed; 25-09-20 at 09:03. Reason: Added speedometer gears and declutch unit.
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  #4  
Old 25-09-20, 14:49
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Default

Also the the 2 speed cases used by Ford and Chev, while having the same internals, are different on the outside.

Ford cases have a bracket for the shifter that bolts to the side of the case, keeping the shifter in close relationship to the shift rails, and therefore less likely to "Pop" out of high or low range. There is, however noticeable movement inside the cab of the lever.

Chev cases have the shift lever fixed to the cab floor and a flexible linkage to the shift rails. With heavy body flexing in rougher terrain, this can cause popping out of gear, but no movement of the lever inside the cab.

And there are also 2 versions of each of the single speed cases and the 2 speed cases, with different capacities of oil.

I have never seen a model number reference for any of the CMP transfer cases.
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  #5  
Old 25-09-20, 14:51
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It would be great if New Production parts are available for the Transfer Cases from Meritor!

I would laugh if some parts sales clerk is scratching his head wondering why he is suddenly being flooded with dispatch orders for T32-2 Service Kits by the dozen, when they haven't sold ANY for the last 15 years!
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Old 25-09-20, 14:59
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THIS THREAD has some discussion on Transfer Cases, and the similarity to the Ford GTB case.

Geof, do you have any references for the case fitted to the GTB?
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Old 25-09-20, 15:24
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Transfer Cases

Thanks for all the good replies. Please keep them coming!

I had searched this site previously, but hadn’t yet found the links folks have included here. I look forward to reading all of that, as time allows. I just don’t want anyone thinking I’m not willing to do the work to investigate.

The GTB transfer case also looks very similar. I hadn’t see that one yet.

I also hadn’t seen the one with the extra oil capacity. Very cool!

Much of this makes me wonder if Ford and possibly others licensed the design from Timken, but manufactured it themselves. For example, I know IH manufactured multiple axles that were designs licensed by Eaton. They did this for decades.

Interestingly, Timken actually licensed the design from Alma Motor Company and there was a court case in the mid-40’s.

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinio...troit-axle-co/
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Old 26-09-20, 03:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Smith View Post
THIS THREAD has some discussion on Transfer Cases, and the similarity to the Ford GTB case.
Geof, time has moved on a little. In that thread, I posted a link in reply#3. That link to a thread is no longer a valid address, so try
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...0&pagenumber=2 for a very interesting set of pics, including the transfer case for the Rear-Engined Ford Armoured Scout Car chassis.
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  #9  
Old 26-09-20, 04:43
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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This stuff is blowing my mind!

A couple of questions, was McKinnon a company in Canada that produced parts for GM in Canada?

I’ve seen a couple of references to a Company called “Wisconsin” that also produced these transfer cases. Is that the same Wisconsin that used to produce small engines? Any idea what the formal name of that company was?

Thanks for the links and info. I’ve read what’s been posted and linked. I’ll keep searching the site as well.
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  #10  
Old 26-09-20, 05:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof.Fowler View Post
This stuff is blowing my mind!

A couple of questions, was McKinnon a company in Canada that produced parts for GM in Canada?
General Motors Corporation is, of course, an American Company. McKinnon Industries was a Canadian Company that developed early links with GM, and as the businesses increasingly became interdependant, was eventually bought by GM USA and later became part of "General Motors of Canada". It was this Canadian company, with limited input and oversight from GM USA, that developed the range of Chev vehicles for the Commonwealth militaries during WW2, and shipped Chev and GM vehicles throughout the British Empire.

https://hotrod.gregwapling.com/chevrolet/mckinnon.html

While a legitimate GM entity, GM Canada designed, developed and manufactured all it needed quite independently from GM USA, sometimes without the knowledge of Detroit, sometimes with the tacit agreement to utilise the benefits of trading within the Empire rather than being a US business.

There is a parallel story with Ford of Canada, and Chrysler/Dodge, too.
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Old 26-09-20, 05:57
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Thanks Tony!
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  #12  
Old 26-09-20, 14:53
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Geof, to complete the story, could you please post some pictures of the 1950's Transfer Cases fitted to International trucks for us? And perhaps the trucks themselves, we are always on the look out for new treasures to rat out for CMP parts!
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  #13  
Old 26-09-20, 15:30
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Ouch! That hurts!

Yeah, I can post some info in a little while.
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  #14  
Old 26-09-20, 18:22
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

Admins: I'm linking my website and facebook pages below simply to share info related to the transfer case, which appears very similar and possibly the same as the two speed case used in the CMP & GTB trucks. I'm not selling or trying to market anything. If any of this needs to be removed, please let me know.


My first experience with the T32 transfer case was in a truck I bought about 20 years ago. It's a 1954 International Harvester R-140 4x4. The following link will take you to some pics of my truck when I first bought it. It was originally a brush fire truck in the oil fields of Montana. The fire equipment was gone by the time I bought it. I did some minor work to get it running better and used it around the yard on clean up projects. My first son was born around the time I bought the truck, then a second son, then work and life got busier . . . you all know the drill. I haven't done much with the truck in a while, but still love it.

https://ih1404x4.weebly.com/r-140-4x4.html

When you follow the link above, the black truck at the top of the page is mine. There are a couple of pics of the transfer case included.





I started that website because there wasn't much info on these trucks on the web. You should dig around on the different tabs to see some examples. A few years ago I started using Facebook more and haven't done much updating of the website. Now, I just try to support folks with these trucks to help keep them on the road.

Anyway, the IH trucks that used the Timken T32 transfer case are the following:

Production Numbers Per IH
R-140 4x4 1953-1955 995 trucks
R-160 4x4 1953-1955 923 trucks
S-140 4x4 1955-1956 642 trucks
S-160 4x4 1955-1956 1,695 trucks

I'll post some examples of these trucks in the following posts.

IH did continue the 140/160 4x4 trucks through 1961 and then into the Loadstar trucks, however, those trucks did not use the T32 transfer case.

I also have a lot of info on these trucks on my Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/IH140and1604x4Trucks

I'll try to find some other pics of the IH T32 stuff.

Thanks for welcoming me to this community.

Let me know if you have any questions.
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  #15  
Old 26-09-20, 18:23
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

To give an idea of what these trucks look like, here are some examples:

R-160 4x4 (1953-1955):



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  #16  
Old 26-09-20, 18:23
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

To give an idea of what these trucks look like, here are some examples:

S-140 4x4 (1955-1956):




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  #17  
Old 26-09-20, 18:24
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

To give an idea of what these trucks look like, here are some examples:

S-160 4x4 (1955-1956) Note that small number of these were special ordered with the Rockwell T223 transfer case instead of the t32:



The Navy SeaBees used the S-160 (and the later A-160 & B-160 4x4) with this Garwood crane to move bombs.
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  #18  
Old 26-09-20, 18:37
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

R-140 4x4 (1953-1955):




Here's a neat barn find R-140 4x4 with the 9.5' pickup box.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/i...40-4x4.121724/



Here's the T32 in that last truck. This is the same as all of the IH trucks that used this transfer case. Passenger side drop.




And the most famous R-140's. There were three woodies made for use by the Army Corp of Engineers in their exploration of the dakotas.
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  #19  
Old 26-09-20, 18:44
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

I know these T32 transfer cases were also used in some trucks converted to 4x4 by NAPCO in the 50's. I believe those came with some passenger side drop and some driver side drop, but I'm not 100% on that.

They were also used in some log skidders made under the Tree Farmer brand. I think they were the C4 & C5 models.

Also, as mentioned previously, some of the WWII scout cars used them.

I assume there were other applications. The Meritor manual shows them being made into 1990.
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Old 27-09-20, 01:37
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default IH Travelall C-120

Hi Geoff,

Did this IH Travelall use these transfer cases too?

Dad bought this new in 1962 and the photo taken at Ocracoke Inlet NC about 1964.
Sorry for the poor quality, but it was a Polaroid I scanned and filtered recently before it disappeared altogether.

It was Navy Grey and had a 266 CID V-8 engine in it and 4 spd manual transmission. I seem to remember the model was a C-120 but perhaps I am wrong. It has the Warn lock out hubs up front hence no hubcaps.

The story the IH dealer told us was it was a US Navy trial and they had purchased 2 of them both Navy Grey for evaluation but cancelled before taking delivery.

When i got my driver's license I enjoyed taking it for a spin occasionally. Everyone wanted a 4 speed in those days but usually in a muscle car. A two ton vehicle with a small V-8 was no "muscle car" however!

Cheers,
Attached Thumbnails
travelall 1962 C-120.jpg  
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  #21  
Old 27-09-20, 01:38
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

It's my understanding that most of the Napco trucks used a dana/spicer transfer case, model 23 & model 24. However, some did use the T32.

This post has some good info. I'm still trying to read through it all.

https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=320260

On page 13 of that thread, you'll find this:



Here's a T32 that might be out of a Ford truck converted by Napco, although I don't see a Napco tag.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1475895-napco.html

Here's one in a 55 Chevy 3/4 or 1 ton truck. Driver side drop. I'm wondering if the same case can be used for driver or passenger side drop?

https://barnfinds.com/bf-auction-195...o-ending-soon/



Somewhere above someone mentioned taking a transfer case or big part through the airport. I did that several years ago. Had a reason to travel to Philly on business. Shortly before the trip I stumbled upon a T32 on ebay that was just listed as used transfer case. Turns out the guy was cleaning out his fathers garage. His father owned a plow company. The son who I met was driving an F600 Napco converted truck when something popped in the case and it wouldn't move. They swapped in another used case and left this one in the garage for the next 40 years.

I flew in, had my meetings, went to meet this guy at dinner time, paid him and put it in the truck of the rental car. Went to walmart and bought a cheap set of Stanley wrenches, some rubber gloves, an aluminum baking tin, some paper towels, and some boxes/packing tape. In the walmart parking lot, I took the case out and started working tearing it apart. I bought an aluminum baking pan to drain the oil in, then poured it into a two liter bottle I found in the trash. I left that by the door of the pep boys service center next door so they could recycle. I tore the case apart and ended up putting it in 3 boxes. Even the case by itself it pretty heavy.

The next morning, I drove to the rental car drop off. You should have seen me shuffling those heavy boxes! Then I went to the Philly airport. I assumed I was going to have to pay $100 or more to ship it. Well, it was my lucky day. Their systems were down and they were manually ticketing everyone, so they couldn't charge me! At the Atlanta airport, I rented one of those luggage carts to get me to the shuttle bus to my offsite parking. IT was quite the adventure, but well worth it. I put it back together and have it under my workbench in case I ever need it. I'll try to pull it out and get pics when I can, which will probably be in a couple of weeks.
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  #22  
Old 27-09-20, 03:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof.Fowler View Post
Interestingly, Timken actually licensed the design from Alma Motor Company and there was a court case in the mid-40’s.

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinio...troit-axle-co/
I have only just begun to read the court case, and it is quite a read.

One point that stands out is: "The motion was predicated on an affidavit that Timken had manufactured transfer cases for the United States alone,..."

As stated regarding GM USA/McKinnons, and Ford/Ford Canada, there were a number of Canadian companies that were either sister companies or independant subsidiaries that engaged in Canadian manufacture of US designs for the Bristish Empire market.

Timken has lodged an affidavit that they only manufactured transfer cases for the United States. Perhaps a Subsidiary or licensee of Timken in Canada had manufactured the T32 within Canada, and with Timken being aware on the need to pay Alma royalties in 1940-41 (ie Pre-War in US terms and before the passing of the Royalty Adjustment Act), ensured that the Canadian production did not make use of the term "T32" to avoid triggering royalty payments to Alma on production of the CMP Transfer cases, which by then were being made in Canada in quantities far greater than any Pre-War US numbers.
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  #23  
Old 28-09-20, 04:10
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

Here's an earlier Napco with the T32

http://classiccardb.com/chevrolet/35...eel-drive.html

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  #24  
Old 28-09-20, 04:38
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Timken Rockwell T32 Transfer Case

Follow the link below to see a piece of the IH manual covering the T32 transfer case.

https://ih1404x4.weebly.com/manuals-...ce--other.html

I'll post more, but am having trouble with file sizes on my website.
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  #25  
Old 30-09-20, 07:15
Geof.Fowler Geof.Fowler is offline
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Default Travelall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Reed View Post
Hi Geoff,

Did this IH Travelall use these transfer cases too?

Dad bought this new in 1962 and the photo taken at Ocracoke Inlet NC about 1964.
Sorry for the poor quality, but it was a Polaroid I scanned and filtered recently before it disappeared altogether.

It was Navy Grey and had a 266 CID V-8 engine in it and 4 spd manual transmission. I seem to remember the model was a C-120 but perhaps I am wrong. It has the Warn lock out hubs up front hence no hubcaps.

The story the IH dealer told us was it was a US Navy trial and they had purchased 2 of them both Navy Grey for evaluation but cancelled before taking delivery.

When i got my driver's license I enjoyed taking it for a spin occasionally. Everyone wanted a 4 speed in those days but usually in a muscle car. A two ton vehicle with a small V-8 was no "muscle car" however!

Cheers,

Hi Jacques. Neat story.

No, the Travelall did not use the T32. I believe they used one of the new process cases - NP200, NP201, NP202.
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