3 Churchills need saving in Germany

[Niels V]

If any one is up for a challenge
http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread...ed-if-not-sold

[eddy8men]

thanks niels
I will copy my post here and keep them updated, I don't mind where the tanks end up as long as some are saved, anyway here is the post I put on hmvf.

the 3 churchills from haltern range in Germany are to be cut up in the next week if no one comes forward to buy them. the tanks are off the range and in the scrap merchants yard. they are avavilable for £9k each. I have been talking to a german guy today with regard to their value, he wants to buy them and sell them on but I pointed out that they are worth no more than the scrap merchant is asking so no profit left for any middlemen ! if he doesn't save them then I might be able to get some parts but it doesn't look good. so if there is anyone reading this who wants to do their bit then step forward and be counted (tumbleweed moment) I can't save them all guys.
http://www.hartziel.de/_typen/churchark.htm

http://www.hartziel.de/_typen/churchavlb.htm

http://www.hartziel.de/_typen/churcharv.htm

rick

[eddy8men]

I put that post up yesterday and this one tonight

spoke again today to the german chap Thomas, the tanks are in a yard in Aachen and there are 5 churchills not 3, the 3 I posted earlier are there as well 2 other hulls that have mostly been stripped, that's the good news, the bad news is none of them can be sold complete and all would need to be cut in half apparently to meet the demilitarization rules. if i can arrange it I will fly out in the next week to go and have a shufti and see if there is a way to get around the rules.
even though they would need to be cut in half they would still be viable (except the mk7's)as the side armour could be removed and the hull frame cut and once with the new owner the armour could be refitted and the 3/4" box frame welded. (much easier than welding 2 halves of a Sherman together) !
if all else fails i will try to salvage what I can for myself and john's Churchill.
I will keep the updates coming as I get them.

rick

ps. thanks for the offers of help I have received so far

[eddy8men]

3 of the tanks

[Robert Bergeron]

Don't they have any sense of history and a wee bit of common sense over there? Demilitarise what? 70 year old hulks. A restorer or two coûld save a bit of history by gosh. Thanks for your efforts old boy. Robert

[ajmac]

Rick,
Isn't the term 'put beyond use', couldn't one argue that they are already torn up hulks and thus already 'beyond use'? You need a man from the ministry with you

[kevin powles]

What a shame, most likely war time ones from D day that made it all the way, sad state of affairs. You would of thought the British government would step in a reclaim them after all they belong to the British tax payer. They still scrap them over here so I hold out little hope for them.

Kevin.

[eddy8men]

they were offered to the tank museum who were not interested but I suppose none of them are tanks and there must be 30 range wrecks still left on the ranges over here. so no real need
I plan on going to Germany on Monday as the tanks are being cut up daily and time is of the essence.

rick

[kevin powles]

Rick, good luck mate, get us an early cupola armoured periscope cover and 6 pdr cradle while you are there.

Cheers.

[kevin powles]

Also a barrel 75 mm Will do if no 6 pdr, beggers can't be choosers.

[eddy8men]

kev get rid of that crappy centaur and get a Churchill bridgelayer instead, just think of the fun you could have

[eddy8men]

have arranged to meet the german contact at midday on Monday at the scrap yard. pics to follow

[Ganmain Tony]

Good hunting Rick...

[kevin powles]

Rick, hope you can save them. What wagon have you taken?.

Kevin.

[eddy8men]

going over with a dealer that wants some of the postwar stuff. I spoke again to the contact yesterday and he was sure the tanks have to be cut so it will be more of a spares salvage, however I will try to save them from the gas axe as complete hulls. unfortunately I have no influence over anyone but word might get out to someone that does.
whatever happens at least I would have tried.

rick

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Rick,

You are to be recommended for trying to save them - here's hoping you succeed

Saw the Churchill ARV at Pounds in the mid-80's, it is a tremendous beast and would be my Churchill of choice too.

Good luck!

Hanno

PS: Pic below shows a Churchill sticking out of a scrap pile at Pounds Yard in 1985 - visiting that yard back then was a stunning experience

[eddy8men]

thanks hanno
I will try my best but the real hero of the hour is the german guy Thomas that has done all the leg work. I am just trying to use a few contacts to do what I can.
i'm looking forward to it but it's going to be a long drive, setting off from Manchester at 10 pm tonight and won't get back until 4am Tuesday

rick

[kevin powles]

Rick, Best Father's Day ever for you Rick!, heading off to Churchill graveyard!. Stuff dreams are made of mate, good luck!.

Kev.

[eddy8men]

hi fella's
I got back tuesday morning from the scrapyard in Germany and unfortunately I wasn't able to save anything not even spare parts, let alone complete tanks.
the deal got off to a good enough start with us getting to the yard at 11.30 meeting up with our contact Thomas and having a look at the tanks with a view to salvaging maybe 10 ton of spares. at around midday we left for lunch for an hour and when we came back the deal was off and the scrap guys had decided It was too much hassle and not enough profit. Thomas tried his best to cut a new deal or salvage something but they weren't interested and we had to leave. I have to say it was a bitter blow to have to walk away and i'm still angry but there was nothing I could do.

here's a few pics of the tanks, I will post more later. the firs two are a mk2 arv and the other three are a postwar bridgelayer

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Rick,

Very sorry to hear about this outcome! Sounds like "a dime on its side" (as we say in Dutch), it could have gone either way. At least you tried, thanks for sharing this story and the pictures. I guess not all WW2 tanks can be saved

Hanno

[eddy8men]

thanks hanno
I guess you can't win them all

[kevin powles]

Rick, You must be fuming mad, what a waste just for a quick buck, history lost for ever.

:-(

[Robert Bergeron]

Sorry to hear the outcome Rick. You did not work in vain. You have raised our collective awareness of the worth of preserving these hostorical military artefacts. Well done! Robert

[eddy8men]

thanks guys the sad thing is the spares from those churchills would have helped with the restoration of at least 4 others and it wasn't just churchills, there were conquerors and cents as well.

[eddy8men]

the pic with my hand shows the thickness of the armour on the conqueror turret. all that history gone

[maple_leaf_eh]

It hurts to look at those pictures.

[jdmcm]

That is practically criminal...

[Private_collector]

What a dreadful loss. I'm angry too.
Such a bloody minded approach to conducting business VS helping retain some significant pieces of history.

No doubt, those tenks will be unrecognisable when they return as Hyundais or whatever.

This sort of action SHOULD be outlawed. We heritage list buildings, why not some vehicles like these.

[eddy8men]

I had to stand there and watch while they gas axed them. still hurts and genuinely makes me a sad to think nothing was salvaged at all.
I had one last go at trying to save something yesterday but the door was definitely slammed shut in my face. so it's a done deal they are now gone for good.
there was a wartime square door bridgelayer which was particularly interesting because it hadn't been reworked with the cones over the armour bolts, it was also one of only two surviving examples. the twin ark was the only surviving example of the type and that is also gone.

[motto]

Swords into plough shears, it has always been so but that makes it no less maddening.
I understand it's often the case these that days the scrappy has no room to manoeuvre having been locked into a contract for the complete destruction of the equipment and no on sale to a third party except for melting down.
I have friends that have been in the ammunition business for years who used to buy empty, reject or overrun casings and reject or overrun projectiles from a scrap dealer by the ton.
The guvmint has now become so paranoid they would rather bury it in a secure location. Probably alongside our F111s.

David