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  #1  
Old 17-10-20, 01:30
Doug Carrs Doug Carrs is offline
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Default help with ID please, FGT?

Hello everyone
first post and not the best friend of computer but Ill try to add some pictures at the end.

Recently found the remains of what I thought may have been a FGT but not sure, hoping someone can help. The frame is junk but the rear axle has been moved back and you can see where it was and it would have been about 101". Still one pigtail underneath but there is no vibration damper on the winch drive shaft. Did all FGT have the damper? There is no room for it. There seems to be extra plates inside the frame rails at the crossmember ahead of the winch. Not a regular CMP cab as it has a 1" square tube frame around the outside of the cab back. There is also a long narrow compartment above the drivers windshield, against the roof. also had a square hatch at one time.

If the winch was added, any ideas on what the vehicle might have been?
Any help is greatly appreciated
Doug
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  #2  
Old 17-10-20, 01:39
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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Who knows what axles may have been grafted on but from the pics alone, and the idea it was 101" wheel base at one point, I'd say FAT. The winch installation looks right as do the triangular gussets at the back of the cab behind the door openings.
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  #3  
Old 17-10-20, 03:03
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Let me start by admitting I know less about Ford CMPs than the Chevrolet versions.
The front axle appears to have the heavier type of steering knuckles (six bolts/studs holding the pivot bearing caps on) and the higher count of bolts holding the steering ends of the axles to the central core. Other than the FATs, most (all?) 101" WB CMPs had the lighter steering knuckles with only four so either someone substituted a heavier axle (hope they did both front and rear so the ratios match) or it was built that way as a FGT.
It is quite possible that if the Layrub coupling from transfer case to winch failed, someone might have fabricated a replacement from a driveshaft. Layrub couplings are still available but not nearly as easy to source as a used driveshaft that could be shortened. Are there signs of field fabrication or engineering by Bozo on the short shaft?
I don't know of any 101" WB CMPs other than FAT that would have had pigtails riveted to the frame. Attachment by rivet is almost certain to be factory, bolts would be simpler to do if you were transplanting in a winch. My impression (to be confirmed or corrected by others) is that although all Chevrolet's had the winch cross-member even without a winch fitted, Fords only got the crossmember if a winch was fitted.
The storage arrangement over the driver's head may be for an artillery plotting board.
I agree with Bruce that the gussets behind the doors were not normal on a standard cab. (The back of the cab prevented twisting/racking but since the FAT didn't have the stiffening of the cab back another form of stiffener was needed.)
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Old 17-10-20, 05:03
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Welcome to the Green (OD) Asylum......

Quick get a trailer and get it home...... you only need to find a couple more for parts.

What part of Ontario Doug???

Lots of people on the forum to help you out......

Hope to see more of you and the truck......

If you decided to get the Ford Artillery Tractor you will need to learn the words to the old song...." Rolly Polly Mama's little FATty.............

Cheers
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  #5  
Old 17-10-20, 05:11
rob love rob love is offline
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The common killer of artillery tractors was that winch. Post service, it was in just the right place to make a tow truck. The turtle back was thrown off, and the jib was usually welded directly onto the frame rails, ensuring that the frame would get so twisted and bent up, with the ensuing cracks, fish plating, and more cracks, that the rails would be beyond restoration.


I have an artillery tractor project waiting in the wings now. The 15 cwt frame is identical, so will be the donor to make the artillery tractor whole again. And, thankfully, it is a Ford.
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  #6  
Old 17-10-20, 05:54
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Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
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Fuel tank brackets look to be the correct type for 20 Gal tanks, opposed to the regular 12 Gal.
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  #7  
Old 18-10-20, 01:47
Doug Carrs Doug Carrs is offline
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Thanks everyone for the thoughts.

It does have the large front axle and yes I did drag this home, to Niagara.

The pigtail is bolted... The short shaft from tcase to winch brake drum is maybe 6" or so. Cant tell yet about fab work until I get it cleaned up abit. If there was a coupling would it have been bolted directly to the drum? There is only about 4" or so before the crossmember and it would produce a very sharp angle. Or was that how they were.

This had two 6 ft long pieces of railway track welded on top of the rails ontop of everything else to try to hold it together! I will be looking for a frame for sure and move the crossmembers if needed. If anybody has any thoughts or possible leads that'd be a big help. Good to know the 15cwt are the same!

Theres also an upper support bar(1" tubing?) with corner gussets up the back corners and across the roof back inside the cab. Is this something that was inside FAT cabs for stiffening, or added later? Seems to be made well.

Added a few more photos, maybe something else will jump out.
Thanks again, really appreciate all your knowledge.
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  #8  
Old 18-10-20, 03:27
rob love rob love is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Carrs View Post
Good to know the 15cwt are the same!

The Ford manual gives different part numbers for the 15cwt frame rails vs the artillery tractor, but looking at the two different frames here in the yard, I'll be darned if I can tell what the difference is. Pretty much all the holes required for the artillery tractor including the winch mounting are already present on the 15cwt frame.
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  #9  
Old 18-10-20, 13:36
Doug Carrs Doug Carrs is offline
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Thanks Rob for checking, no reference material at this end yet. Starting to look like it is or was at one time a FAT. So going ahead with the Ford project. Frame hunting season begins....
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  #10  
Old 18-10-20, 15:31
rob love rob love is offline
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The lip around the cab where the turtle shell meets the cab is the easy indicator that it was. But be aware that to complete the tractor, you will have to find a 25 pounder, then a limber, then all the tools that go with that. Trust me, it will be a very time and cash consuming project. Add to that you will need 6 dewat Enfields for the rifle racks.



It always amazes me at the condition of vehicles that the collectors in the East starts with. That level of rust through on sheet metal would normally condemn a vehicle in this part of the country. If you like, I can keep an eye for a frame for you. They exist in nice shape out this way, although too often on a kijiji ad the sellers think they have gold.
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  #11  
Old 18-10-20, 15:51
Bruce Parker Bruce Parker is offline
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You can skip the 25pdr, limber, scotches and simply go with the FAT radio van...
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  #12  
Old 18-10-20, 17:02
rob love rob love is offline
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Well that is one way to keep the driver warm....put one of those toaster ovens on his back.

I can't imagine how that would even fit in there.
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  #13  
Old 19-10-20, 00:14
Bob Phillips Bob Phillips is offline
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Just a couple of points..most gun tractors seem to be equipped with extra overload leaf springs in the rear, but not all.. anybody know about this feature?
I bought a Ford guntractor/ tow truck many years ago from a small rural garage in New Dundee Ontario. It had been bought new in 1946 from the Ford dealer in Kitchener as apparently they were given first offerings of new military vehicles at the wars end. It came with a stylish rear body which included rear wheel skirts. It was equipped with a hand powered weaver car crane, The operator told me the winch was only used to pull customers out of the ditch or etc. It survives, restored to this day in the Hockley Valley!
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