MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Gun Park

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24-01-21, 23:45
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default 25 pounder wood seat

If anyone has an original 25 pounder seat, could they tell me how thick the wood is? I am going to guess that it is 11" round, the same as the metal base underneath, but perhaps that should be confirmed as well.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25-01-21, 13:25
Phillip's Avatar
Phillip Phillip is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 174
Default

Hi Rob, mine is an original , I will measure for you.
__________________
Phillip Thompson

"He who has the tiger by the tale, is often afraid to let go" - Confucius

Ford FGT No.9 (long suffering restoration project)
25 Pdr (Under Restoration)
No.27 Artillery Trailer (Under Restoration)
Bit and pieces of a 2 pdr AT (Looking for bits)
LP2a Carrier - 3" Mortar Trials (Restored)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 25-01-21, 13:30
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Thanks Phillip, looking forward to it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25-01-21, 19:32
Mark Cornwell Mark Cornwell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Here and there
Posts: 23
Default

I have the same problem with mine. The seat looks like a giant cake!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25-01-21, 20:23
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Kind of what I don't want. They have some nice laminated pine at home depot for a decent price, but it is 3/4 thick. I think that will be too thin and sandwiching it will end up 1-1/2 thick which might be too much.
I thought of buying a couple wood barstools and using the tops off them.

They are in stock at Dirk Leegwaters site, but between the Euro exchange and the postage, they are a little too rich for my poor blood.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25-01-21, 21:54
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,426
Default Q.F. 25-Pdr Howitzer Seat

Does this image from the Identification List for Ordnance, Q.F. 25-Pr., C Mk. II on Carriage, 25-Pr., C Mk. I also Carrier Dial Sight, C No. 18, Mk. I - 1943 help?

Click image for larger version

Name:	77A. Plate X - Seat and Shield.jpg
Views:	10
Size:	1.45 MB
ID:	119444
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 25-01-21, 23:35
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Well it does show that the seat overlaps the metal base, so it is likely pretty close to 12" diameter. It does not solve the unknown of the thickness.
I note the dozens of screws holding the wood to the base in your photos Ed. My manual does not specify the length nor even list them. Does yours?

Last edited by rob love; 25-01-21 at 23:40.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 26-01-21, 00:00
Wayne Henderson Wayne Henderson is offline
Member since 1998
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 468
Default seat

I have seen two styles of seat bases here in Australia, we copied the British gun and made it better.
One base is the full width of the wood seat and the other is smaller and is recessed flush into the wood seat.

Photo is of a reproduction seat, incorrect but I will fix that in the future when the custodians throw money at me.
Attached Thumbnails
seat.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 26-01-21, 01:48
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

I wonder if the metal plate is smaller than the 11" on mine.

We also copied the British gun and made lots of Canadian substitutions and manufacturing changes.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 26-01-21, 03:44
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,426
Default Q.F. 25-Pdr Howitzer Seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob love View Post
Well it does show that the seat overlaps the metal base, so it is likely pretty close to 12" diameter. It does not solve the unknown of the thickness.
I note the dozens of screws holding the wood to the base in your photos Ed. My manual does not specify the length nor even list them. Does yours?
Unfortunately nothing on the screws or the seat thickness.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 26-01-21, 05:14
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Phillip emailed me the measurements of his seat: 11-3/4 round and 7/8 thick for those that want to know.

Ed: Your scan shows around 23 screws. My base only has the inner circle of screws that I am able to identify, so there may be some variance on the designs.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 26-01-21, 11:40
Phillip's Avatar
Phillip Phillip is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 174
Default Seats me!

And here it is, screws are a slotted round head wood screw. Unsure of the timber, I would be guessing if I said it was some sort of coachwood.
Attached Thumbnails
D527B303-E2AB-47CE-B1F0-2239CB93DE9D.jpeg  
__________________
Phillip Thompson

"He who has the tiger by the tale, is often afraid to let go" - Confucius

Ford FGT No.9 (long suffering restoration project)
25 Pdr (Under Restoration)
No.27 Artillery Trailer (Under Restoration)
Bit and pieces of a 2 pdr AT (Looking for bits)
LP2a Carrier - 3" Mortar Trials (Restored)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26-01-21, 12:32
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,426
Default Q.F. 25-Pdr Howitzer Seat

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob love View Post
Phillip emailed me the measurements of his seat: 11-3/4 round and 7/8 thick for those that want to know.

Ed: Your scan shows around 23 screws. My base only has the inner circle of screws that I am able to identify, so there may be some variance on the designs.
What, a variation on a wartime military contract that potentially uses multiple suppliers for the same item!? hehehe Next your going to suggest that the howitzer used to illustrate the manual was selected at random. Well, at least you can save money on screws with the version you have.

The next time I run across a 25-Pdr I am planning on counting the seat screws.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 26-01-21, 13:35
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Ed: I have no doubt you will.

The British did not seem to mind wasting metal or machining time. I had to make up the handle for the seat (well made two of them actually). The major diameter of the long side is around .6 inch tapering to around .5". The threaded side is around .630. But the washer in the center is 1", and is not a separate item but rather they started with a piece of 1" roundstock and started turning it from there. The little stubs for the firing platform legs are the same.....I have to start with 1.5" round and most of it is going to be .750 diameter.

You would have thought they were winning the war when they made these items. Well made? Yes. But economical?

Last edited by rob love; 27-06-21 at 16:12.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 26-01-21, 13:37
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,517
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
And here it is, screws are a slotted round head wood screw. Unsure of the timber, I would be guessing if I said it was some sort of coachwood.
I was going to go with pine. I have 20 or 30 years left on this planet if I am lucky, and I have no plans of storing this gun outside. But if it is a hardwood, then I guess there is no choice. I think I have some ash planks out in the yard.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 26-01-21, 14:43
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Timber for old MV's

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob love View Post
I was going to go with pine. I have 20 or 30 years left on this planet if I am lucky, and I have no plans of storing this gun outside. But if it is a hardwood, then I guess there is no choice. I think I have some ash planks out in the yard.
Many restorers think mostly hardwood was used, but many non-structural wooden parts were made from softwood. For a seat I reckon you would be good using pine.

See the link to HMVF below to make an informed decision:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
For Canadian and British wooden bodies, indeed. Attached is a drawing for the Canadian 2H1 15-cwt body as fitted to CMP trucks. The construction of these bodies were based on the British design.

Note the thicknesses of the boards and the types of wood used in the construction of these bodies.

The British even published an Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Regulation (EMER) for wood specifying the various types of timber to use on vehicles - see HMVF forum: Timber for old MV's
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 26-01-21, 17:21
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cody, Wyoming, USA
Posts: 2,365
Default

I suspect different places, different timber. Pine was not common in Australia before WW2, whereas the local native species were available and abundant. The stocks on .303 rifles made in Australia used, from memory, any of three different native species rather than Walnut.

Aust production was most probably a native hardwood, while in Canada, other species like pine or spruce or maple were probably the most available?

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 26-01-21, 17:30
Tony Smith's Avatar
Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
No1, Mk 2** (I'm back!)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lithgow, NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cecil View Post
I suspect different places, different timber. Pine was not common in Australia before WW2, whereas the local native species were available and abundant. The stocks on .303 rifles made in Australia used, from memory, any of three different native species rather than Walnut.

Mike
Lithgow-made .303s used a total of 9 species of timber, 1 was NZ Birch, the other 8 were Native Australian species; NO British or indeed any Northern Hemisphere timber species were used at Lithgow.

I wood think that any timber used in Australian-made 25Pdrs or vehicle bodies would also be exclusively native species.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_7010.JPG   IMG_7011.JPG   IMG_7012.JPG   IMG_7013.JPG   IMG_7014.JPG  

__________________
You can help Keep Mapleleafup Up! See Here how you can help, and why you should!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 26-01-21, 17:32
Tony Smith's Avatar
Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
No1, Mk 2** (I'm back!)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lithgow, NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,042
Default

More timbers:
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_7015.JPG   IMG_7016.JPG   IMG_7017.JPG   IMG_7018.JPG   IMG_7009.jpg  

__________________
You can help Keep Mapleleafup Up! See Here how you can help, and why you should!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 26-01-21, 18:13
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cody, Wyoming, USA
Posts: 2,365
Default

Thanks Tony, nine it is.

My reference to Walnut was, of course, to the northern hemisphere species ( Juglans sp.), not Qld walnut (Endiandra palmerstonii).

Like the Canadians, the Australian-manufactured 25-pdr adapted local resources and manufacturing techniques to suit. While most parts were interchangeable, differences did lead to logistics difficulties in the supply of spare parts in some cases. For example, the packings within the Australian buffer & recuperator were different to British production, and not interchangeable.

There are a small number of timber items on or included with a 25-pdr (seat, line mounting block, rammer, oil-can mounting block, parts and tools boxes) but I've not seen specifications which included the type of timber to be used in manufacture.

Mike

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 26-01-21 at 18:19.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 26-01-21, 22:23
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default different places, different timber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cecil View Post
I suspect different places, different timber. Pine was not common in Australia before WW2, whereas the local native species were available and abundant. The stocks on .303 rifles made in Australia used, from memory, any of three different native species rather than Walnut.

Aust production was most probably a native hardwood, while in Canada, other species like pine or spruce or maple were probably the most available?
Indeed local sources were used where possible. See the attached table from the EMER which specifies the "timbers for vehicle bodywork and other uses": the hard woods available in United Kingdom differed from those in Persia & Iraq, for example.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2021-01-26 EMERWood03 webp (WEBP-afbeelding, 583 × 800 pixels) - Geschaald (93%).jpg
Views:	4
Size:	116.1 KB
ID:	119501
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FAT seat holders and seat parts replicas Frantisek Nachlinger The Restoration Forum 1 16-07-18 23:50
Wood wheel Lang WW2 Military History & Equipment 0 19-09-17 09:36
Wood, W. M. S. D. & G. Highlanders Kevin_Wood Your Relatives 0 17-02-17 01:52
For Sale: CMP seat base seat covers, NOS kevin powles For Sale Or Wanted 9 21-06-16 00:58
Wood work Jordan Baker The Carrier Forum 1 31-07-06 23:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016