40 mm Bofors AA guns made in GB and US

[Murray]

And another

[Godwin Hampton]

Murray, we're lucky you couldn't resist!

The bofors seems to be USA manufactured, with the Mk 1 welded platform and with the characteristic american combat wheels, but with all the british mods, like the shields and the Stiffkey sight.

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

Hmm? The British Mk 1 (riveted) platform or carriage was copied in USA and designed M 1. Most of these issued as lend-lease to other countries.

The welded version of the British Mk 1 carriage developed in USA was known as M 2 and in a later version M 2 A1.

Photo: US 40 mm AA gun M 1 on carriage M 2.

[kevinT]

I know this is post war but sort of related.
I was going through some of my late Fathers old books etc the other day and came across
Gun Drill, for Gun-Equipment 40/70 L3 (land service) when used at hand or local power control. 1964.
Also
User Handbook
Truck, 3ton, GS, Cargo, 4x4, Bedford-R
Truck, 3ton, GS, Cargo, with winch, 4x4, Bedford-RLW
Chassis, 3ton,GS, Recovery, Light, Bedford-RLC
Issued Jan 1958
W.O. Code No. 18374

He was in the Royal Artillery, 1947-1973
Of any interest to anybody?
Cheers
Kevin T

[Crewman]

Hello Stellan!

Originally posted by Stellan Bojerud
A number of states aquired rights for licence production. Austria (Staatsfabrik) 1935, Belgium (Fabrique Nationale) 1936, Czechoslovakia (Skoda) 1938, Finland (State factory) 1937, France 1937, Great Britain 1937, Hungary (Mavag) 1935, Norway (Kongsberg) 1937, Poland (Starachowice) 1935.

Full name of the Polish Starachowice-based manufacturer is: Starachowickie Zak³ady Górnicze SA.

Originally posted by Stellan Bojerud
I know that 406 guns were made in Poland of which 168 were exported to Great Britain, Netherlands and Rumania, but I do not know how many guns to each nation.

The figures of these Bofors guns are the problem in Poland as well. According to various Polish data:

78 guns – ordered by the Polish Government in Sweden
414 guns – manufactured in Poland
168 guns – exported by Poland
358 guns – the number of guns that served in the Polish Army in September 1939


Sources:

Adolf Stachula
Dylematy polskiej artylerii przeciwlotniczej okresu miêdzywojennego
(The Dilemmas of the Polish Anti-Aircraft Artillery of Inter-War Period)
Przegl¹d Wojsk Lotniczych i Obrony Powietrznej
(The Air Force and Air Defense Review)
Poznañ, September 2002

Piotr Rozwadowski
Polskie armaty przeciwlotnicze 75 mm wz. 36/37 oraz 40 mm Bofors
(Polish 75mm and 40mm Anti-Aircraft Guns Models 36/37 and Bofors)
Dom Wydawniczy Bellona, Warsaw 1998
ISBN 83-11-08906-X

Marek J. Aszyk
Uzbrojenie Wojska II Rzeczpospolitej. Armata przeciwlotnicza kal. 40 mm wz. 36
(Armament of the 2nd Republic. Bofors 40mm Anti-Aircraft Gun Model 36)
http://www.wojsko18-39.internetdsl.p...ien/opl40.html



Polish Bofors 40mm guns wreckage pictorial after 1939 Campaign

[Crewman]

One more US specimen. Photo taken in 1943.


Library of Congress LC-USW33-000888-C

[Godwin Hampton]

Crewman,

Very interesting, and at the same time very sad pictures of the Polish Bofors guns. They seem to tell us though that they went down fighting! Another thing that struck me is that all the wheels have been removed.......sabotage?

[Crewman]

Originally posted by Godwin Hampton
Crewman,

Very interesting, and at the same time very sad pictures of the Polish Bofors guns. They seem to tell us though that they went down fighting! Another thing that struck me is that all the wheels have been removed.......sabotage?

Hello Godwin,

Hard to say if sabotage...

According to my knowledge all types of wheels are desired and valuable "war goods" for civilian people all over the world, always and at every war.

If sabotage then rather Polish troops sabotage against the Germans. I think that majority of the guns showed at the pics has its vital parts destroyed by Polish troops to make the guns unuseful for the enemy.

Best regards

C.

[Godwin Hampton]

Crewman,

The only one showing wheels in the background has had them removed complete with the axles. This could not be done with the original Swedish platform! Is this a Polish design? It seems to have 3 arms and levelling jacks, rather than the usual 4.

The Bofors with the barrel facing the camera and with the small shed behind also seems to have this type of platform. I have never seen this before today. Thanks for sharing them with us.

[Crewman]

Originally posted by Godwin Hampton
Crewman,

The only one showing wheels in the background has had them removed complete with the axles. This could not be done with the original Swedish platform! Is this a Polish design? It seems to have 3 arms and levelling jacks, rather than the usual 4.

The gun seems to have Polish camouflage and the pic comes from German soldier album of 1939 so I think it must be Polish-made. Unfortunately I do not know how much the Poles re-designed the original Swedish platform because I do not have all possible Polish articles about this guns so I am not top expert in this field. What I may write the Polish platforms had the Lockheed-type brakes and the Ackerman-system axles but I am not sure if it is something other than in the original design because I am unable to compare it with the Swedish materials on the subject of 40mm Bofors guns.

Originally posted by Godwin Hampton
The Bofors with the barrel facing the camera and with the small shed behind also seems to have this type of platform. I have never seen this before today. Thanks for sharing them with us.

All pics are "by Wehrmacht of 1939 Campaign" so I think the guns must be Polish-made. No doubt there were two types of the wheels in Polish Bofors because two types can be seen at the Polish photographs. I will try to post more Polish Boforses (normal, undestroyed) if I find copyright-free pics.

Best regards

C.

[Godwin Hampton]

The Ackermann steering and the Lockheed brakes were fitted to the original design. In fact the reason the axles could not be made removable was because the brake master cylinder / reservoir was inside the rear longitudinal girder, with the wheel brake cylinders at the rear wheels. Flexible brake hoses allowed the axle to rotate and thus lower the mounting onto the jacks. To remove the axle would mean having to remove the flex hose, and this would allow fluid out and air in, and necessitate bleeding the system after reconnecting!

The British Mk.2 Platform had the master cylinder / reservoir fitted directly to the rear axle, so this could be removed without disturbing the braking system.

[Crewman]

Originally posted by Godwin Hampton
The British Mk.2 Platform had the master cylinder / reservoir fitted directly to the rear axle, so this could be removed without disturbing the braking system.

Sometimes the number of Polish Boforses exported to the UK is mentioned as 150 pcs, other time as 168 pcs. Maybe 16 pcs were not exported in fact and they stayed in Poland but I do not know if they were equipped with the wheel system you described...?


Polish-built 40mm Boforses

[Godwin Hampton]

Crewman,

The British wheel system I described was for the totally different Mk II platform designed by the engineers at Nuffield Mechanisations to be much simpler than the original swedish design. It can be seen in many of Stellan's photos and can be easily identified by the baloon tyres and the tubular outriggers.

One of the guns shown in your latest set of photos is actually a Russian copy of the Bofors. See Stellan's colour photo at the top of the previous page.

Sorry to have confused you about the wheels/brakes...

[Woj]

Originally posted by Crewman
[B]Sometimes the number of Polish Boforses exported to the UK is mentioned as 150 pcs, other time as 168 pcs. Maybe 16 pcs were not exported in fact and they stayed in Poland but I do not know if they were equipped with the wheel system you described...?

Marek Piotr Deszczynski, Wojciech Mazur, "Na krawedzi ryzyka. Eksport polskiego sprzetu wojskowego w okresie miêdzywojennym" ("On the Brink of Risk. Export of the Polish Military Equipment in the Interwar Period"), Warszawa 2004. Polish text with Summary in English.
This book you can find (for example) here: http://www.neriton.apnet.pl/product_...roducts_id=272 or here: http://www.lideria.pl/sklep/opis?nr=56177 or here: http://www.historyton.pl/catalog/pro...oducts_id=1511

Woj

[Crewman]

Woj,

Thank you! Writing the posts I did not know this new book. You know that Polish bookstores with the military history books are pressed down by the tons of Western books and sometimes it is hard to find something new in Polish.

Unfortunately the subject of the AA artillery is underestimated by our publishing houses and, to some extent, also by the authors that is why sometimes there is a space for speculation. The same goes for various technical aspects of the Polish Bofors 40mm guns. It would be hard to tell that small booklet I mentioned (ISBN 83-11-08906-X) is a kind of very good monograph of the Polish-built Bofors AA guns.

Thanks and best regards

C.

[Woj]

Originally posted by Crewman
Woj,

Unfortunately the subject of the AA artillery is underestimated by our publishing houses and, to some extent, also by the authors that is why sometimes there is a space for speculation. The same goes for various technical aspects of the Polish Bofors 40mm guns. It would be hard to tell that small booklet I mentioned (ISBN 83-11-08906-X) is a kind of very good monograph of the Polish-built Bofors AA guns.

Thanks and best regards

C.

Sure - new research would be needed. During last some years I found some important sources in the Polish archives. I hope that I will be able to clear some interesting issues soon (till end of this year?)

Best regards,

Woj

[Murray]

I posted some pictures to this thread last month of the 2nd Yorkton LAA Bty, 2nd LAA Regiment in Holland in 1945. The picture attached to this post is B Troop of the same Battery at Detling Airdrome in Surrey, England 1941. According to the Battery's diary, they were at Detling from April to July 1941. The equipment according to the Diary was "semi-mobile Bofors with No.3 Predictors, 4 to a Troop."

[sapper740]

I know this thread is about towed Bofors, but since we're all such great fans of the gun, I thought you'd like to see some pics I took last week aboard the U.S.S. Texas (BB35)

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sapper740
I know this thread is about towed Bofors, but since we're all such great fans of the gun, I thought you'd like to see some pics I took last week aboard the U.S.S. Texas (BB35)

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sapper740

[Godwin Hampton]

Originally posted by Stellan Bojerud
Thank you for the M 19 Bill!

This is the British version of the airborne Bofors gun. The Canadian version you can see on top of page 1 of this thread.

The Canadian version was called "Bantam" carriage. Was Bantam the producer?

What were those guns and carriages called officialy? Mk ??

Answer;

ORDNANCE, Q.F. 40-MM., MARK 1/2 on
MOUNTINGS, 40-MM. A.A., MARKS 9 AND 10 and
PLATFORM, 2-WHEELED, 40-MM. A.A., MARK 1

The Ordnance was the standard Mk 1* gun fitted with a muzzle brake to preserve stability during firing because of the lighter mounting and platform.

The Mk 9 mounting is a modified Mk 3, while the Mk 10 is a modified Mk 4. The frame, platform and seats were removed and replaced by others of different design. The electrical gear and the shields were also removed.

The Mk 1 platform was a new design, having 3 girders ( or outriggers ). Two were swung together to form the towing bar, while the third slides in and out of the platform.

Brakes were Warner electric, as used on other British heavy artillery pieces.

[Phil Waterman]

This winter I picked up a 3 phase generator which was designed to go with the US or UK version of the 40MM it was used to feed the fire control system and is set up for 3 phase at 50 or 60 cycles. The manual explains the power settings for the British fire control system.

[Godwin Hampton]

The Britsh produced a particular generating set for the Bofors and Predictor. This consisted of a Coventry Climax 4 cylinder side-valve engine of 847cc capacity belt-driving a Crompton Parkinson 3-phase alternator. Output was 2.75 KVA ( 130 volts, 12.2 amps ) at 3000 rpm. Frequency was 50 cycles per second.

I have the remains of two such sets, from which one can hopefully be assembled in the future.

If your generator is this type, I have the Field Manual, which only covers the set,though.

Could I be so cheeky as to ask for a photocopy of your Manual, as mine gives no details of the actual Fire Control. I will naturally cover any expenses incurred.

[Phil Waterman]

I plan to scan the manual in to a pdf file so it will be no problem to send it to you. The manual is for generator so it is just talking about the use and how to set it for the different voltages and cycle rate.

[Godwin Hampton]

Very nice of you, Phil! Thanks.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Phil Waterman
I plan to scan the manual in to a pdf file so it will be no problem to send it to you. The manual is for generator so it is just talking about the use and how to set it for the different voltages and cycle rate.

Here is the link to M5 Generator Manual sorry for the large file size I'll work on keeping it readable and making it smaller.

http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/ to my site
http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/Generator.htm directly to the Generator Page

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

In Britain the Bofors was produced in the main, by Nuffield Mechanisations, (part of Morris Motors). Their first one being delivered to the army from their Coventry factory on 15th June 1939.

'On 7th January 1939, Colonel NO Carr wrote to the DCE & ME, Department of National Defence, in respect of the body for a Field Artillery Tractor, No1, Mk I, for towing the QF 40-mm AA Equipment. He requested an order be placed with the British War Department for the supply of a copy of the General Arrangement Drawing, Design Drawing DD(V)630, together with photographs, of the tractor body as referred to in the R.A.C. Minutes A-7320 of 12th October 1938 and A-7349 of 9th November 1938'.

So far as I can see this body was the Morris-Commercial body as fitted to the CDSW, which of course went into production by Wolseley Motors initially in 1939 and then Austin Motors the following year.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Has anyone got a photo of a CDSW Bofors tractor please?

[Tony Smith]

Sort of off thread, but.....

If a Bofors gun is fitted in an AC130 gunship, should it still be called an AA gun? If not, what then? Pro-Aircraft? Anti-Ground?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Anti-Ground?

.. or 'Anti-anything'?