Border Raiding

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by colin jones

What I do need if anyone can help is any information as in pictures, drawings or anything that would help in the restoration of the vickers light tank to running condition.
Colin.

Colin,

I thought there was a Light Tank on that load, you might have seen a thread about these on the forum in last few days. I did some work on the restoration of one of the ten that went to Australia, cheifly electrical and instruments, but have quite a few photos, and other info. Does it have the engine still in it?

Just notice that there are two Vickers MkVI tanks, good going!

[ron]

Hi Colin,
Check your E mail box ,
Ron

[colin jones]

I think your right rick it was really the barrel and recooperater I was after.

Ron, the vickers would be a great project. It has the engine, trans, radiator, linkage and another hull with lots of stuff in it. A very unique little tank. But I will have to try ang get a bit more track because some of it is dead.
Colin.

[ron]

Colin its a pity this did not happen a little while back that Marmon Herrington carrier conversion had British track on it but thats gone now, I will keep an eye out up here for you and see what turns up, maybe some one closer to home might have some they can spare after all its in a good course
Ron

[Lynn Eades]

Colin, essentially it runs the same track as all the other Aussie carriers.(not narrow english track)

[ron]

Hi Lynn,
Well you are never to old to learn, thanks for that information,that will make it easier to source track,
Regards, Ron

[colin jones]

Hi Lynn, I will check it in the daylight but the track that is there does look like the horns are closer and the lead plug area is different also. There is a t16 there as well. I think a busy beaver will be an understatement with this lot.
Colin.

[colin jones]

a few more for your interest
Colin.

[ron]

Hi Colin,
Third pic is very interesting showing differant wheels on the double bogies also the track is not Aust track, the wheel leaning next to the carrier seems narrow, in fact I reckon its the one that I picked up and put down again a couple of months ago, By the way if it is ,that one it measured two and a half inches across the ruber , the same as the ones fitted to that Marmon conversion that I recoved last year, more to ponder,and although my wheels did not have rubber this one does,so now whats the answer?did we make narrow wheels here? if so why?
Regards, Ron

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by colin jones

a few more for your interest
Colin.

Colin,

On the third picture, is that two aluminium turret baskets for the tanks, on the truck?

[colin jones]

Yes richard they are the turret baskets and how lucky am I to have them. It would be so hard to find information if I had to replicate one. I will take a lot of pics before I start any restoration on this piece of history. It would be a crime to let the poor thing just sit an rott in to the ground. It is already under cover in a shed.



Ron, I will measure the wheels today and put my findings on MLU tonight. as you say it is all very interesting.
Colin.

[Justin Pollard]

Hello Colin,
what a top haul of carriers,well done.take that scrappies!.

[Lynn Eades]

check out this pic. already from this forum. specifically the track.
The light tank wheels have flat spokes, just like the skinny English wheels, but in fact are the same width as the Aust. wheels. the light tank track,is fully pinned, with no lead plug required.

[Treadhead]

I really do have too much time on my hands

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

check out this pic. already from this forum. specifically the track.
The light tank wheels have flat spokes, just like the skinny English wheels, but in fact are the same width as the Aust. wheels. the light tank track,is fully pinned, with no lead plug required.

A detail from the pic I posted in the "Aust tanks 1937" thread, the track on the Puckapunyal Vickers, DD^276, has Aust "lead plug" track links. Might this have been an Aust Army change for compatibility with LP carriers, or has it been done during the (Aust Army) Museum restoration using what was available?

[Lynn Eades]

I have no idea really. The last thing I want to do is start another myth, because there are enough of them around already. What I believe, is that the Vickers light tank had wide track/wheels, and when Australia decided to build LP1 carriers, they adopted that option, and stuck with it. I guess the lead plug, has to be an Aust. idea. Maybe someone has the info to confirm or reject it. Maybe it was a Vickers Carden Loyd initiative. The only Vickers Light Tank, that I have seen in the flesh is the one in Pucka

[colin jones]

Here's some pics of the track thats on the tank. I have shown the vickers track which measures 70MM at the bottom between the horns and our track which is 85MM between the horns. Now this is not to say that the track I have is original but I hope it is. A few other pics as well.
Colin.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by colin jones

a few more for your interest
Colin.

Awesome.

[colin jones]

Here's a few more pics of the mechs. Just about all the running gear is there and afcourse condition is unknown at this stage. But it is under cover and I will get to it in good time. Must finish the mortar carrier first.
Colin.

[Rob Dyba]

I have got a lot of info from here http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/
I was under the understanding that the lead plugs were particular to the Australian & carried over the Tasman to the NZ carriers, bieng a more cost effective way of manufacture compared to the "english" pins. I was also of the belief that the local pattern track was based on light tank track, however if the track on this vehicle is correct, and I would assume it is, then that would explain Ron's narrow spoked wheels, local carrier wheels machined down to suit "Vickers" narrow track when "English" wheels were not available locally. Probably the engineering required to change the drive sprocket & track adjuster wheels on the rear to suit local track was more effort than skimming a few wheel castings at manufacture, so was the easy way to go. I don't believe english type track was ever foundered locally, LP1's also using the "wide" track. Colin can you get a width measurment of the road wheels on Vickers, so we can compare them to Ron's wheels please??? I think they will match.

Rob

[ron]

Morning Rob,
Thanks for your reply regarding the narrow wheels,I agree with what you have said, I was down in Victoria a couple of months ago to pick up my Met gas carrier,and called to see John, I checked out Colins Vickers tank at the time,I think the track on it is original, the wheels are narrow I picked up a spare narrow wheel next to the remains of a carrier and ran the tape measure over it for width. the rubber was complete in fact it was as good as new but the rubber was hard as you would expect it measured (One Inch less ) than the standard Aust wheels although it was the standard H pattern,The Marmon Herrington carrier that I recoved last year had these wheels but the rubber was gone,someone had suggested this was done by the saw mill owner when the conversion was done after the war ,My question is why would you bother tirning down australian wheels to fit British track when Aust track and wheels were all over the place on top of this there were no Laths or mills on the property to do this type of work, which also requires a fair amount of skil I also picked up a couple of spare British type narrow wheels that were lying on the ground I think what Rob has said is true it seems that Aust either cast some narrow wheels the question is why? or as he said turned some down ? By the way those Marmon parts are looking for a good home if any one needs them,
Regards Ron

[ron]

Hi All
Almost forgot to tell you that the track on the Marmon Herrington carrier conversion was the double ended British type track not that unusual for the time its been over 50 years since the conversion was done,and just think if you can source Marmon Herrington complete drive lines,a small thing like British double ended pin track would have been not a problem, the track was useless and is long gone now, if you check my carrier country pics you can see it,its very important to keep an open mind on these things Colin and a few other guys have proved this,its all out there you just have to look out side the square,,
Best Regards,
Ron

[Lynn Eades]

with all due respect I think your headed in the wrong direction.
That Tank Colin has, has the wrong track fitted to it.
It appears easy to do.Jeff Plowman here in N.Z. owned an LP2A with English track fitted on its original wheels. It chews things up a bit, but it works after a fashion.
You must have seen enough "boch ups" in the bush in the past to know that our fathers did stuff that we wouldn't put up with now.
I'm hope Richard can square this away ,by telling us about the difference in width between the Vickers Light Tank track,and English Carrier track.

Colin. I see the oil filler cap on your engine is very much the same style as the English fuel tank caps in carriers.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

I'm hope Richard can square this away ,by telling us about the difference in width between the Vickers Light Tank track,and English Carrier track.

Lynn and Colin,

This what I can tell you, not having anything to do with the track on the one restored over here, I am going from the official manual;

Mark VI tank ( this is the earlier model, Australian ones were MkVIa )

"Track width 9.5 ins., No.6, consisting of 155 links, 147 hinge pins and 8 joint pins."

"The hinge pin is of steel, formed with a head at one end being riveted over after links have been connected.
The joint pin is of steel formed with a head at one end, the opposite end being provided with a washer and keep pin."

"Amendment 1, Sept. 1938
Mark VIa and VIb tanks

The track is generally similar to that for the Mark VI tank, except that the link lugs are wider apart to accomodate the wider pattern bogie wheel and guide roller fitted to the Mk VIa and VIb tanks."

Not sure if this is of any use to you, but all I can come up with at present.

[Lynn Eades]

Just what the doctor ordered. Thankyou.
So apart from the lead plugging verses full length pins, it's identical, and interchangeable with the Aust carrier track.

[Jared Archibald]

G'day Everyone,

interesting thread all round.

This is a quote from Section D, Page 1 of the "Carriers MG, 2 pdr, and 3"Mortar Workshop Manual" - Australian Issue.

"Carriers M.G., 2 Pdr., and 3 inch Mortar are fitted with 9 1/2 in. tracks, which are interchangeable with those used on the light tank Mark VIa (but not with the British Carrier), excepting that the number of links per track differs for each vehicle".

This statment correlates with the info quoted by Richard from the manual for these tanks.

Just another piece of information to add to the mix.

Jared

[Richard Farrant]

A few years ago, gathering information like this in a few days and from all corners of the world, would have been unthought of. Colin, you are not on your own, there will always be someone with the answer out there.

I have been looking at some of your photos and notice that the radiator has been moved to the pulley end of the engine. It should in fact, be over the gearbox, laying not quite flat, following slope of front decking. It hinged up to access a fan assembly, the latter does not appear to be there. I am searching for some of my photos that might help you here. The oil guage attached to the radiator looks like the original, now the black box fitted just below, looks like it might be the cut out for the dynamo as the wiring dissappears in that direction. Different to the one that I worked on, probably the sort of thing that failed in service, and was substituted with a suitable replacement.

[colin jones]

morning everyone, Thanks Richard, I'ts good to know that there's help out there and by crickey I'll need it. I can see a trip to the pucka museum coming up with my trusty camera, laptop, tape measure and steel rule and about 2 days of going over every nut ,bolt and rivett. One good thing is that at least there is one here for me to see in the flesh. I took some pics this morning and they show english track one side and aust track the other. If it does take the aust track then it will be easier for me to fit out.
Thanks everyone for you input to date.
regards
Colin.

[lynx42]

Well the border raiding is on again. This time from Victoria to Northern NSW and reverse. Carrier 2217 has gone to a new home in Guyra and a very good No.6 Artillery Body has come home to Gippsland for my WO-78.

A quick sign on the back of the load not only told others what was on the trailer, but also resulted in 3 leads for the future. The UHF Ch.40 sign also let the truckies know that they could talk to me and me to them, so everyone knew what was going on and passing was easier. The police also called in for a chat and so did the NSW RTA.

A 2716km. round trip at 5.6km/L. or 15mpg. wasn't too bad as I was pretty loaded up both ways. That new England Highway has some BIG hills too. Up Moonbi Hills it was 1st gear and 30/35km/h. luckily there were roadworks and the speed limit was 40km/h. so I didn't hold anyone up there.

One big load was seen at Murrurundi. 8.8metres wide on 88 trailer wheels.

Traffic around Sydney was really bad. 2 1/2hr. for 64km. So much for the Hume Highway. Should have been Hume Carpark.

Needeed now are two doors for a No6. Artilery Body.

Regards Rick.

[lynx42]

No.6 Artillery body for Bofors gun tractor.