C60 cwt Signals CZMk IV

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Grodon

Always find it interesting the different ways people handle odd projects like putting a body on a chassis.

Rolling the body off the wagon on to the chassis on rollers is quite good, but how did you get the body on to the wagon?

As I look back on some of the ways I have done things like this in hind sight they look look like a How Not To Do It book. Got to find the pictures of how I put the radio box onto my truck, included a pair of 12 foot "I" beams as incline plane and a pair of comealongs.

Your approach looks like a slow and easy approach of just being sure to keep every thing lined up and level, well done.

Cheers Phil

[Gordon Yeo]

Phil

See page two, post #33 too see the van body coming off, log skidder and rollers. The wagon that the van body was on was slightly higher than the truck chassis, at one point the weight and balance was so good I could push the van body along without the skitter helping. The van body certainly went back onto the chassis with far less drama than I thought there would be. Having a 90HP loader tractor certainly makes a big difference on the last few inches of alignment and removing the rollers.

Gord

[Gordon Yeo]

I have most things back on the truck and only a few small details to complete. Here are a few pictures as of today. The mirror is for the cab interior rear view mirror of large John deere tracts. It is larger and wider than the original CMP mirror but is convex and does a very good job on the CMP truck. Any one interested in better pictures?

[Bob Carriere]

Wonderful job on the truck..... absolutely stunning....... one can almost hear the clapping of the screen doors on a warm Summer night.

How does it drive?????

Cheers

[Gordon Yeo]

Bob

If I ever do get the C60 out to a show it will make great caravan with screened windows and doors. Mike Cecil posted info on the van body that said the floor was coated with Dektred and it was lifting in many places. I stripped the floor to bare metal and wondered what to put down in its place. The idea I came up with might not be the original but will do. I used a two part under coating/ primer from PPG that is very durable and sprinkled sand blasting grit into it. I put down two coats of primer and sand with two coats of grey porch floor enamel paint. It gives a slip resistant surface that will be very durable.

I haven't gotten the truck licensed yet so miles traveled are minimal. I went about three miles yesterday and there was shimmy and shake in the steering. Today I went over three miles and things went much better. The old girl has sat for so long and different tires maybe things need to be run in again.

I have a transmission out of a 15 cwt in the truck and am wondering if speedometer drive unit in a 60 cwt transmission is a different gear ratio. Could the brain trust comment on that possibility?

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Gord

Too late tonite for a brain trust but....

....where is the speedo connected.....?

Usually connected to the front centre gear of the transfer case...... so actually recording Revs going to the axle.

Gear ratio is different for C15 axles and C60 axles.... different tire heights.....

I would gamble that properly fitted on a 2 speed T-case on a C 60 the difference in tire height is offset by the axle gear ratio and they are all the same.

Now on your 3 mile runs if it starts showing 80 miles per hour your speedo is wrong !!!!

Cheers

[Alex van de Wetering]

Lovely work Gordon; very nice. So, what have you done lighting wise? I see the original lights at the rear, and two modern lights added to the chassis rails. And two small LED (?) indicators on the front bumper?

I have no idea what Dektred looks like, but I think your solution of a coating combined with sand is very clever. I see the truck also still has the Original ceiling lights!

Original mirrors seem very hard to find these days and the repro ones are becoming more expensive by the day. I have seen a lot of people using the cheaper "interior mirrors" (at least that;s how the classic car parts dealers call them) , but I have to say your John Deere solution is also a very good alternative....slightly larger than the Original mirrors, but still a similar look.

Alex

[Ganmain Tony]

Looking terrific Gordon, a superb restoration - does the old girl stop as well as go?

I do love the look of the later round instrument dash.

Lovely looking variant and very practical back for throwing a swag in and camping the night.

[Harry Moon]

The transmission would be exactly the same C15 or C60

[Greg]

Hi Gordon,

The truck is looking great. I am really glad that it went to a good home as I did not have the time to do it. I did not want to see it rust away.

Cheers,
Greg

[rob love]

It takes a special person to save one of the big ones. Between the large size, the fuel consumption, and the lack of speed and power, you really have to love them.

In the end, the large ones seem to find their way into the museums.

Great job Gordon.

[Ed Storey]

Gordon:

That CMP is very nice, great work.

ED

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Agree with Rob about the fuel economy, but of the three CMP I have the C60S with the radio box is the best riding and fastest of the lot. Even when it had it's original 216 engine it would move down the road at an indicated 50 MPH which is closer to 60 MPH because of the 11:00x20 tires. With the original engine we would kid that it would do 0-60 in 12 minutes on the flat. If I have a long run I take the big truck over the HUP or Pat 12 C60L cargo.

Hope that you find yours nice to drives and rides as nicely Gordan. Yes you do have to enjoy driving a big truck, but I really enjoy it. With the screen doors, screens on windows, and the insulation in the walls on the box should make the truck a good camping truck for events, add the shower and toilet and you are living in comfort.

I will be curious to hear what your truck ends up weighing, and what is your overall height? Two figures that I remember on mine 10,000 lbs. and 10'6" which are important to remember. While out on club convoys over the years we have arrived at bridges that I couldn't drive across or in the case of one Covered Bridge could not fit through.

Right now my Pattern 12 C60L has an indicated top end of 30 MPH. Truck accelerates nicely to 30 MPH and the needle doesn't go any higher even though truck keeps accelerating.

Looking forward to hear how the truck goes as it breaks in.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers Phil

[Gordon Yeo]

Alex

I have managed to find enough original lights to have the "proper" lights mounted on the truck. Harry Moon had very kindly sent me the information on the LED lights he had used on his restoration. The LED bulbs fit into the original light fittings and are very powerful. White for the convoy light and side lights,red for the tail/ brake lights

With the van body on the truck rear visibility is nil and I wanted to have signal lights for safety in todays traffic conditions. What I didn't want was a light system permanently mounted. What I did was get a trailer light package that has the wiring and lights for the trailer and wiring connection for the towing vehicle. I put the trailer wire harness in the truck frame, my front signal light fixtures are glued to magnets and can be mounted on the front of the bumper when on the road and hidden on the reverse side. The tail/ signal lights are on the towing vehicle harness and can be unbolted, unplugged and removed when at a show.

[Gordon Yeo]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Looking terrific Gordon, a superb restoration - does the old girl stop as well as go?

I do love the look of the later round instrument dash.

Lovely looking variant and very practical back for throwing a swag in and camping the night.

Tony

The truck stops very well, it would seem the booster is working as it should. I'm not as convinced about the van body being "very practical", your truck with a cargo tray is far easier to see around and behind. Once you get your sides and tail gate sorted, some tarp bows and a canvas, you will be set up very nicely.

[Gordon Yeo]

Originally Posted by rob love

It takes a special person to save one of the big ones. Between the large size, the fuel consumption, and the lack of speed and power, you really have to love them.

In the end, the large ones seem to find their way into the museums.

Great job Gordon.

Rob

You and I are both fortunate in having the room and resources to accumulate and restore the big trucks. It would be a shame to see them slip away. Early days but, there might be a chance for paint to come your way.

Gord

[Gordon Yeo]

Here is a picture of the original, verses John Deere tractor mirror size. The original mirror measures 2 3/4 " x 5 5/8 " ( 7cm x 14cm) the tractor mirror measures 3 1/2 " x 7 1/2 " ( 9cm x 19 cm). The tractor mirror is a convex glass and I think it has even more curve than the original. With the van body on the C60 the larger and more convex glass give better vision down the passenger side of the vehicle.

[Gordon Yeo]

I realized I hadn't posted any info on the truck in quite a while. There was a big scramble to get it registered for the road then left so I could do other more pressing things.
I did manage to get a historic plate registration and everything settled that was required. I took it to the the grain elevator company and ran the truck over their weigh scales, the truck weighed 4290 kg. I had thought it might be more, but if it had all its kit, two full fuel tanks and van interior equipment it probably would be more. Here it is all dressed up and no where to go.

[Bob Carriere]

.....not even the local pub??????

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Gordon

The finished product looks great, and from all your post along the way we have gotten to see the detail that went it to that finished product.

The empty weight of 4290Kg comes out to 9458Lbs which is just a little lighter than my C60S with S56 radio box total of just over 10,000Lbs. with the heavy radio table, spares storage cabinet and spare tire in the back. All load to go to a show just over it runs 11,000Lbs.

Again great work.

Cheers Phil

[Walde Libera]

You have done well! I remember the year got my FAT (CGT)on the road it had issues with shakiing steering . I thought it was cold tires or old rubber you know it takes a little time to become round especially when it's sitting a while.

I checked everything finally I balanced my front wheels, cost me a $100 bucks but it made the truck drivable what a differance. Instead of using the ugly clip weights I used stick on flat ones and painted them OD.

Walde

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Gordon,

It looks stunning! Not many CMPs with Lindsay house type bodies are properly restored.

Why not ship it over to Holland and join The Final Push early next year? You can live in the back

Hanno

[Gordon Yeo]

Hanno

I have looked at The Final Push and thought what a great experience it would be. Having been to Holland in May 1995 and May 2010 I know how things get done there!! To take the C60 would be VERY expensive, 2000 Km trucking to Halifax Nova Scotia, RO-RO shipping to Holland, staging to the tour departure, then the tour and back home. It would be cheaper to buy a vehicle in Holland!
A more reasonable approach would be to convince one of your countryman they desperately need someone with them, who can play the bagpipes and help pay for the gas money.
Not many Lindsay bodied trucks are restored because they are great lumbering gas guzzlers, have been butchered or had the bodies removed. This one, as it turns out, is a very special one. The Design Records lists the number of Signals Van CZ MkIV bodies having been built as 14. The van body on this truck is #9, any one care to guess how many of the original 14 still exist? Its other great salvation was that it was never turned into civilian use. When I was going to buy it there had been no civilian road registration for the vehicle.

Walde

Thank you for the tip on balancing the front tires. I still don't have many miles on the truck yet but it does have a vibration around 32mph. Lots of tweaking to do yet before it gets ready for next summer. My RCEME V-teck is home on Christmas break next weekend and I'll put him to work, again. Right Neil.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Gordon Yeo

I have looked at The Final Push and thought what a great experience it would be. Having been to Holland in May 1995 and May 2010 I know how things get done there!! To take the C60 would be VERY expensive, 2000 Km trucking to Halifax Nova Scotia, RO-RO shipping to Holland, staging to the tour departure, then the tour and back home. It would be cheaper to buy a vehicle in Holland!
A more reasonable approach would be to convince one of your countryman they desperately need someone with them, who can play the bagpipes and help pay for the gas money.

Gordon, just kidding about bringing over the truck, though some guys with deep enough pockets actually have done this in the past.

But indeed, why not join The Final Push in person? Let's work on this idea, maybe we can convince more Canadian MLU members to come over.

PS: here's a picture of my truck carrying 6 members of a Dutch pipe & drum band last June in Normandy.

H.

[Gordon Yeo]

Mike

Here are two pictures to give you an idea of what the underside the steel panels look like with the interior plywood removed.

[Marc Montgomery]

Beautiful work Gord! Such a rare vehicle...often wish I hadn't sold my own 60cwt.. it used to drive like a dream...although with the 900x20's it was happy at 85-90 kmp, 100 was pushing it. (and really happy at about 50-60kmh. and it too was a rare one, an REL contract and so had the big winch as fitted to FAT's
I only ever used the 4wd twice and on both occasions it was amazing..once when taking it out of storage in a barn across a soft field, I stopped for the gate and it slowly sank. trying to get out with RWD only succeeding in sinking it further up to the diffs...4wd pulled it right out...wow..

BTW- there was a junkyard in Quebec about 15 years ago with a few lindsay bodies (and a few cmps) they were using as storage for parts.. I mentioned it at the time, but dont think anyone else ever went there to save them.. The yard and TONS of parts all gone now...sigh.

anyway.... again beautiful work ! Congrats for saving the piece of Canadian history !! well done that man!!

[Gordon Yeo]

Previously in this thread I talked about the shifting mechanism for the FWD selector was gone. Seems that is the first thing to disappear off these trucks, never to be found again. Doing nice things for people can be made more rewarding when, in return, they do nice things for you. Here are pictures of a complete tranny with all the parts that I was missing on my truck. Now I'll have to get Bob Carriere to come and show me how to adjust it.

[Bob Carriere]

Time consuming yes.........

When you start fiddling with the linkage from the T case tower let me know. The rods going and out of the T case are adjusted by screwing the rods in or out....... however, to adjust you need to almost remove the T case.

One of the rods has a small piece....about 2 1/2 in. long.... with a pin sticking out from each side...... connects the shifter rods to the T case...... will need to dig into my photos to show yo what I mean...... I simplified the design by replacing the two pin part with a homemade version with the two pins on the same.....makes it easy to remove for adjustment without moving the T case.

You may also have to rebuild the holes in the many shifting rods if they have become oval with wear..... tight pin connections helps the adjustment process tremendously.

Hang in there.......

[Bob Carriere]

HAve a look at mine during the early stage of construction

Carefull on the last bolt........ I showered twice that day.....

[Robin Craig]

Gordon,

I don't know how I missed the thread before.

Wonderful looking truck, great work and care. I love the lighting modifications.