MCP 2Lb Anti-Tank portees

[cliff]

Originally posted by Shane Lovell
Cliff

If you are basing your comments on the use of /A and /B on Portees on the 1942 3 Aust A/T Regt material I sent you, I have another theory.

It is that the they were used to differentiate 2 pdr and 6 pdr equipped portees on paper. Thus, the /A were 2 pder fitted while the /B were 6 pdr fitted. I assume the fittings needed for both carriage of the guns and ammunition were different.

cheers

Shane

No I am not basing this on the material you kindly sent me Shane but rather on some material you sent David where it refers to artillery tractors as 4X4 but trucks with winches as neither 4X4 or 4X2. (look at David Haywood's 3 post up from here)

My question is are these trucks noted as 3 ton with winch accually portees and or MCP's or CMP's. If CMP's why are they not also designated as 4X4?

Still trying to find out if any 1940/41 model YS Chevrolet 160inch wheelbase 4X2 trucks were used as portees.

Cheers
Cliff

PS> I hope this post is understandable

[cliff]

Thanks Shane I will do. I would like to build a 1/35 scale model of a 'YS' model Chevrolet Portee using the Tamiya LRDG Chev kit as a base but want definate proof they were used as well as the 'WB' 1940 Chevs.

I also find this very interesting history wise and while I originally started off collecting information to make models I now find myself looking and collecting any information I can on WW2 Australian Forces vehicles, especially softskins.

Cheers
Cliff

[cliff]

Originally posted by Shane Lovell
Cliff

The real core problem from a portee perspective is the lack of an injection molded 2 pdr at a reasonable price. Are you aware of the injection Bofors 37 mm. You can also get an ABER etch set for this kit.

cheers

Shane

Yes there is only the Sovereign 2000 resin/whitemetal kit for the 2lb gun and a kind US friend sent me one of the plastic 37mm bofers kits which I have not opened yet.

I emailed my address to you at the work addy. The home addy one bounced back to me. Just working through the Northern Command war diaries on line at the AWM and tracking down 5 Motor Regiment which was based at Gympie in 1941/42. 1 Lt Field Ambulance appears at Gympie in Jan 1942 as well. Will look locally for more info as well.

Cheers
Cliff

[Lynn Eades]

I would guess the wheels to be same as your last photo.(16 inch, not 13inch)

[Kuno]

Just thinking:

> AWM sells its fotos so I assume that they have the copyright on them.

> If somebody buys one foto from them; would he be allowed to sell it again (as here on Ebay)? Or would such already violate the copyright.

[Shane Lovell]

Gentlemen

It is my view that what we see is a portee from one of the British Royal Horse Artillery units and is not Australian at all. My reason for this view is that to the best of my knowledge, 1st Anti-tank Regt, the organic anti-tank regt for 6 Aust Div was not actually involved in the Operation Compass battles.

The portee my belong to one of the Australian infantry brigades involved as each had an organic anti-tank company, however, all suffered from major equipment deficiencies, and at least later in 1941 it was not uncommon for them to be equiped with captured Italian guns. I think the likelihood of this picture being from one of the Brigade anti-tank companies is low.

Happy to discuss further.

Shane Lovell
Canberra, Australia

[Shane Lovell]

Cliff

Still think they are British and that they are 'in support' of one of the Australian brigades which explains the Australian soldier in the picture. I assume that these vehicles are a local modification, however, note some discussion about the use of portees by the BEF.

I am also interested in these vehicles from a modelling perspective, along with the other portees used in the ME.

I need to identify which RHA unit they are and will ask a British friend to copy the war diary for me, which I hope my shed some light on the matter. I'll keep you in the loop if I find anything. Did I share with you may Portee notes?

cheers

Shane

[Shane Lovell]

Cliff

If you are basing your comments on the use of /A and /B on Portees on the 1942 3 Aust A/T Regt material I sent you, I have another theory.

It is that the they were used to differentiate 2 pdr and 6 pdr equipped portees on paper. Thus, the /A were 2 pder fitted while the /B were 6 pdr fitted. I assume the fittings needed for both carriage of the guns and ammunition were different.

cheers

Shane

[Shane Lovell]

Cliff

Understandable. For your info I probably should explain where I have been and what I have from a research perspective.

I started from the perspective of wanting to build a model of a CMP portee with a 2 pdr gun.

Looked at war diaries of 1, 2 and 3 Australian A/T Regts. Of these, only 3 A/T Regt has any info, and it is very detailed. 1 A/T Regt went to Greece, however, there are no entries for their time there. Pity really, as I'd love to know more about any possible use of portees in this campaign. 2 A/T Regt is also pretty slim.

71 LAD (att 3 Aust A/T Regt) is a corker. They generally include copies of their monthly work load. This includes the WD no, unit and work carried out for each vehicle duirng the month. Ohh for all AEME diaries to have this material, especially the armoured units.

I then went and looked at Liaision officer reports. Quite a bit of material her, primarily related to difficulties equipping units, and the use of captured Italian pieces.

The CO of 3 Aust A/T Regt has his personal papers lodged at the AWM. Unfortunately, these have not yet been access examined, though I have commenced the process. We'll see what they provide.

Hope this helps. Email me your snail mail address to work and I'll send you copies of everything I have.

cheers

Shane

[Shane Lovell]

Cliff

I know exactly what you mean regarding being drawn further into the historical research area. I find it happening to me all the time and even though my principal interest is Australian armour I have diverged to include Portees and Tank Transporters. Worse yet, I find myself drawn into further into 'B' vehicles when I find material of interest to David Hayward.

Can't add anything regarding the conversion of the tamiya LRDG Chevrolet, however, in reviewing my hard copy material on 1 Aust A/T Regt, noted they were issued Bedfords to carry their 2 pdrs whilst in the UK. They were an element of the Australian forces that went to the UK and didn't arrive in the ME until early 1941, which explains why they missed Operation Compass.

The real core problem from a portee perspective is the lack of an injection molded 2 pdr at a reasonable price. Are you aware of the injection Bofors 37 mm. You can also get an ABER etch set for this kit.

cheers

Shane

[Shane Lovell]

Cliff

I was wrong in saying that no Australian units during operation Compass had 2 pdrs or portees. I have been looking at the 6 Aust Div organisation on another site and found that the anti - tank companies of 16 and 17 bdes had some; 16 A/T Coy had 9 and 17 AT Coy had 2. Further investigation in the 16 bde on line war diary for Jan - Feb 1941 categoriacally states the use of one gun from a portee. I need to investigate this further.

cheers

Shane

[grant fincher]

This photo is currently listed for sale on E-bay. Listed as
'anti tank unit"
Interesting.
Grant Fincher