Mystery British WDS trucks - Page 2

Pete Ashby · #31 02-03-05, 23:10

Quote:

http://www.photoarchives.co.uk/pixcma/04185.jpg

I'm with you Richard this is the AEC

Pete

Hanno Spoelstra · #32 02-03-05, 23:10

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
The predecessor of the F60H was a Fordson with a Sussex [dual-wheeled] rear bogie conversion with M-H front drive to produce a 6 x 6 that predated or possibly was contemporary with, the Candian Ford chassis with M-H front-drive and M-H and Thornton rear-drive.

Read more background info here: Ford/Marmon-Herrington 6x6 conversions.

Quote:

Anyhow, M-H fans that have not seen the Reports will no doubt be interested in the conversions offered in the UK pre-war.

Well yes, I'd be interested to read more about that. I would not dare to distract you bowler hat types from the Britania-rules-the-waves tenure of this thread, though!

H.

Richard Farrant · #33 02-03-05, 23:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I would not dare to distract you bowler hat types from the Britania-rules-the-waves tenure of this thread, though!

This comes from a man who's country builds DAFT rucks

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #34 03-03-05, 09:18

Ah but the relevance here is that the Canadian Department of National Defence was interested in these various designs pre-war, and was talking of licence-building in Canada. Likewise all the experiences from the Trials was directly responsible for the development of MCP and CMP trucks.

Of course as everyone knows the Canadians purchased several WD British-built types for cash...$$ that were needed for food.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #35 13-04-05, 22:53

Thorneycroft, yes, but LE or Tatar WOF/AC4/1?

# 1 is definitely an Albion BY1 apparently.

Pete Ashby · #36 13-04-05, 23:49

David

it's a Tartar for my money see previous post

Pete

PS
My Dear McSpool,

I'm more of a top hat man myself, bowlers are for Foremen and Bank Clarks I fear Old Boy

David_Hayward (RIP) · #37 03-05-05, 12:09

Quote:

The origins of the AEC Matador lie with its connections with the company that built FWD trucks during WW1. In the late 1920's they were using AEC parts for the trucks and eventually became linked. The AEC / FWD R6T I mentioned was a 6x6 and if you look in Bart's prewar directory you will see the rather unique wheel hubs look the same. Hardy submitted a 4x4 for the WD trials and I am quessing this may be it. As you ask, did the WO take it up, well, I suppose they did in a later form as the Matador and what a successful vehicle it was, earning its keep right through to the 70's at least.

said Richard

I am just going through the 1936 WD Trials Report and it mentions that there was a 6 x 6 'Tractor' used for AA towing and also by the RAOC for recovery work. The Census List shows ex-RAF 'Lorry 6-ton 6 x 6 Crane' to Contract S.3353, L 5819826 to 5819831, and 'Tractor 6 x 6 Heavy AA', H 5877476 to 5878475. Were these the R6T chassis? I suspect that these were 1934-6 Models. The AEC Marshall 'lorries' appear to be 6 x 4 drive.

Richard Farrant · #38 03-05-05, 21:14

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
said Richard

I am just going through the 1936 WD Trials Report and it mentions that there was a 6 x 6 'Tractor' used for AA towing and also by the RAOC for recovery work. The Census List shows ex-RAF 'Lorry 6-ton 6 x 6 Crane' to Contract S.3353, L 5819826 to 5819831, and 'Tractor 6 x 6 Heavy AA', H 5877476 to 5878475. Were these the R6T chassis? I suspect that these were 1934-6 Models. The AEC Marshall 'lorries' appear to be 6 x 4 drive.

David,

The 6x6 AA tractor would be the AEC / FWD R6T/850, refering to bart's prewar book, it was originaly made by FWD in 1929, with a Dorman engine, with planetary reduction gearing in the front hubs (this can be seen on the mystery 4x4 in an earlier message, which I am sure is a Hardy built for the trials). After the takeover in 1929 the R6T was produced by AEC as their 850 model until 1936. A recovery tractor was produced for the RAOC. This matches with what you have said.

The census numbers you quote are late war and would definitely not be the R6T as that was long gone, they would be based on the O854 as used on the RAF refueller. The cranes would be Coles EMA type mounted on O854 chassis / cab. As for the 6x6 HAA tractor, those census numbers may not have been taken up as there is 1000 trucks there. According to what I have found, in 1944 the WVEE started testing an AEC 6x6 Heavy Art. tractor, two prototypes were built, one having an armoured cab.

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #39 03-05-05, 23:22

AEC R.6.T is is! On 9 July 1937, the Canadian High Commission sent to the Director of Contracts in the DND, Ottawa, a parcel of prints of drawings of the bodies for the AEC Model R.6.T. Tractor, drawings C.I.A. (MC) 929 D.D. (V.) 151, 167, 426/1-6.

Canadian connection over!

Quote:

The [R6T tractor] has its origins in the three-way relationship forged in late 1929 between AEC, the Four Wheel Drive Lorry Co Ltd and Hardy Rail Motors Ltd. The original R6T was built at the FWD factory in Slough, and had a Dorman 6-cylinder engine. The IWM exhibit, which has Middlesex registration AMP 80, is one of 33 AEC Type 850s with AEC A136 engines that were built at Southall between 1932 and 1936

AEC R6T photo

David_Hayward (RIP) · #40 11-05-05, 16:04

Can anyone please help? Bill sent me some pre-war British truck photos including two of Karrier 6 x 4 chassis which he says were 'WO6' models as supplied to India. I cannot find anything on this model but in 1935-6 the War Department used C.K.6 6 x 4 3-tonners and I wonder if these were the same or developments thereof?

Added: WHEELS & TRACKS # 5 has a photo of a 1938 C.K.6 and whilst there are similarities, the C.K.6 has a two-pane glass screen and round front wings/fenders whereas the 'WO6' has no front screen and flat type wings/fenders. Definitely looks in the latter case as though it was a different, earlier model. The front rad looks more pronounced in the earlier truck as well.

Richard Farrant · #41 11-05-05, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Can anyone please help? Bill sent me some pre-war British truck photos including two of Karrier 6 x 4 chassis which he says were 'WO6' models as supplied to India.

whereas the 'WO6' has no front screen and flat type wings/fenders. Definitely looks in the latter case as though it was a different, earlier model. The front rad looks more pronounced in the earlier truck as well.

David,

It sounds like the WO6/A, the WO6 was an earlier bonneted truck where as the WO6/A is a forward control and the 'A was supplied to India. It would date from around 1928. Front wings were curved like a Leyland Retiever or Guy FBAX, etc. There was another version, the WO6/B with a front axle set further forward mounted on a transverse spring, this was also for India.

You mention flat wings, then maybe it is a FM6, a photo of which shows it in British army service.

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #42 11-05-05, 21:00

Does this extract help i.d. please?

David_Hayward (RIP) · #43 11-05-05, 21:01

And this one please?

Richard Farrant · #44 11-05-05, 21:22

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
And this one please?

David,

This second one is a FM6, according to the works of Bart, and the photo in his book shows one with a British Census number.

Neither appear to be WO6 models. The main difference between the two photos is the radiator.

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #45 11-05-05, 23:01

Is the number readable please as from that we can find the Contract number and then the year of manufacture.

Excuse ignorance but are they both FM6 chassis?

Richard Farrant · #46 11-05-05, 23:44

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Is the number readable please as from that we can find the Contract number and then the year of manufacture.

Excuse ignorance but are they both FM6 chassis?

David,

The photo of a FM6 in Bart's book ( which appears same as the second photo ) looks like it carries British census number L33800, which according to the list is from Contract No. 2556 Cat. Ref. 21 Karrier 3 ton 6x4 GS.

The first photo looks like a FM6 but radiator has a bigger appearance and different type horn......maybe that one was made for India?

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #47 12-05-05, 10:37

Perhaos the 'winch' lorry was to Contract V2643 'Break Down' although it may not appear in the lisitins og course if exported. Cheers!

Richard Farrant · #48 12-05-05, 20:43

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Perhaos the 'winch' lorry was to Contract V2643 'Break Down' although it may not appear in the lisitins og course if exported.

David,

It may have been on the same contract as the GS truck, because the Census list shows Contract no. 2556 as covering GS and Breakdown versions, total of 16 vehicles in all.

Richard

David_Hayward (RIP) · #49 31-08-05, 21:04

Yours Truly is 50 today, August 31st 2005 and to celebrate here is an Albion at the RASC Depot at Feltham, Middlesex in late 1939 undergoing driver training. I lived about 1 1/2 miles from the depot from when Mum came home from hospital until 1965, and Mum's mother worked in the depot during the war.

Any idea which Albion it is by the way please?

Apparently it's a 6 x 4 WD131!

Bill Murray · #50 31-08-05, 21:34

David:
I cannot answer your question just now, but.......
A most Happy 50th Birthday

How appropriate, you were born the year I first started collecting stuff on soft skins, hanging out at the Motor Pools on various Marine Corps Bases as a callow 15 year old. Thank goodness, I was at the time "The Colonel's Son" and most of the Motor Transport Sergeants were quite generous with old Tech Manuals and the like.
And now here we are, me celebrating my 50th year collecting and you your 50th Birthday.

Many Happy Returns.
Bill

David_Hayward (RIP) · #51 31-08-05, 23:32

Thank you!

Here's a 12-pdr at Fort Horsted, Chatham, 1 December 1940 on the back of ....??

Hanno Spoelstra · #52 01-09-05, 10:41

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Yours Truly is 50 today, August 31st 2005

Congrats, David! I hope there's still some birthday cake left for us.

Hanno

David_Hayward (RIP) · #53 01-09-05, 10:47

Juliette could only get 30 candles on the cake last night! However we gobbled most of it down but crumbs are available to be posted to anyone who wants any!

David_Hayward (RIP) · #54 10-09-05, 20:07

Does anyone have any idea which lorry type this is please? Loks like the Census Number ends '542'.

UPDATE: It's a 6-pounder mounted on the back of an Albion 6 x 4 (BY1?) in 1940 at Chatham from memory: L 211542, V.3560 Lorry 3-ton G/S, Pontoon, TSR, Folding Boat Equipment, LLB, SBG, Break Down'. Excuse my ignorance but what doies TSR, LLB, and SBG stand for?

David_Hayward (RIP) · #55 14-12-05, 12:50

The site has changed the links:

http://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pi...mytrials01.jpg
(Albion BY1)
http://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pi...mytrials02.jpg
(Thorneycroft Tartar)

Les Freathy · #56 14-12-05, 23:39

David
Trawling through this thread i notice you were unaware of the AEC Hardy the fore runner to the matador that Richard mentioned if its not to late heres a photo of one. Ialso have a factory shot of the chassis and scuttle which i will sort out and post
cheers
Les

Richard Farrant · #57 15-12-05, 00:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy

AEC Hardy the fore runner to the Matador ...............if its not to late heres a photo of one.

Les,

Are you sure that picture is of a Hardy? It does not appear to be four wheel drive.

Richard

Les Freathy · #58 15-12-05, 08:55

morning Richard
I see what you mean about the look of the truck but heres the factory shot of the Hardy, I also have a original brochure and even there it has the look of a rear wheel drive, dont forget this was a experimental development as can be seen in the changes between the two photos. The first has a chassis mounted large fuel tank hideing most of the drive componants, what do you think?
Les

David_Hayward (RIP) · #59 15-12-05, 09:08

Thanks Les...here's that 1938 Trials AEC/Hardy again.

Richard Farrant · #60 15-12-05, 21:26

Hi Les,

I see from your factory photo that your truck is badged AEC. The Hardy which David had posted before and now repeated, had unmistakable hubs, similar to the FWD R6T, showing where its design was coming from. The front hubs on your first photo did not look driven although on the second shot, I think the front prop shaft is visible.

The census number on the first shot is L*****, a 5-figure number and no AEC 4 wheeler appears to have numbers that low. Can you read the number from your photo?

Richard