Books photos about executed POWS June 1944

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

The attached is a photo of the Landing Ship Infantry - H.M.S. Llangby Castle taken on the morning of 6 June 1944 off the French coast.

Also, the rest of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles ("B", "D" and "H.Q." Companies) embarked on 3 June 1944 at Southampton on the troop transports, H.M.T Laird Isle and H.M.T. Canterbury , for the invasion.

Cheers

[COLOR=red]Can I PLEASE move into your library room!!! How many years would it take me to look at all the photos and read the book?

Keep 'em comin' Mark ... thanks!

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by V_D
[COLOR=red]Can I PLEASE move into your library room!!! How many years would it take me to look at all the photos and read the book?

Keep 'em comin' Mark ... thanks!

Library room????........Don't you mean LIBRARY HOUSE ...it's got so the girls are living outside in a "Hooch"...well maybe not yet...............but soon

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

Just to give you an idea of what a Landing Ship Infantry (H.M.S. Llangby Castle) looked like, I've attached a photo of the Canadian L.S.I. - H.M.C.S. Prince David(Photo # 1). The smaller boats hanging from the ship are Landing Craft Assault or L.C.A., I've also attached a photo of one beinging lowered from H.M.C.S. Prince Henry's side (Photo # 2) on 6 Jun 44. The L.C.A.'s are what the assaulting companies of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles would have launched their assault on the beaches from.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Carman;

You had asked about what your Uncle Eddie would have been wearing/carrying on 6 Jun 44. I've given some examples in the attached photos:

# 1 - Regina Rifle Regiment troops prior to embarking in England for the invasion

# 2 - troops of Le Regiment de la Chaudiere moving towards their L.C.A. aboard L.S.I. - H.M.C.S. Prince David - 6 Jun 44

# 3 - troops of the 1st Battalion, Canadian Scottish Regiment about to load unto their L.C.A. aboard L.S.I. - H.M.C.S. Prince Henry - 6 Jun 44

You'll notice, they are from three different Regiments, but they are all basically dressed and carry the same equipment.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

An example of the basic webbing equipment:

1 - belt
2 - shoulder braces
3 - basic pouches (for magazines/ammunition, etc)
4 - bayonet and frog
5 - entrenching tool in it's carrier
6 - water bottle in it's carrier
7 - small pack
8 - Respirator Bag (gas mask), which had it's own sling

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

Another example of the basic webbing worn:

I'm sorry to say that I haven't been able
to view todays photos you posted, yet.

Its been raining and I've noticed my phonegets very static-y and I keep getting spontaneously disconnected when it rains.

I'm afraid to call repair because if its not THEIR problem/equipment, I'm afraid I could be charged for any service calls and work. (my nephews landlord is also a slumlord type, like to receive but doesn't like to part with the bundle of goods and services he's supposed to provide ... can I borrow one of those bren thingy's?

(no... I'm not looking for a place in this areaof the 'Peg! Too scarey and depressing)

Carman

Nice pictures Mark but I will have to disagree with our feerless leader on what the men carried in their utility pouches;

"He will in addition have been carrying a bandolier of 50 rounds of .303 British ammunition (for his Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.I rifle) around his neck, and another in one of his ammo pouches. The latter is in addition to a couple of Mk.36 hand grenades.

The other ammo pouch will have contained two loaded Bren magazines (28 rounds per mag) for the Section Bren LMG."

I wasn't there so I'm not speaking from that aspect of my experience. Bren gun mags will not fit into a Basic Pouch and allow for the closing of the pouch I believe this is what led to the developement of the Bren Pouch which is much larger. From the pictures that I have examined the men appear to be wearing "Basic Utility Pouches" and they are all closed with the exception of two instances one shows a Chaudier on the beach with the left hand pouch open but I can't determine if it is a mag sticking out or not. The other picture is of a Bren gunner with both pouches open and what I presume to be mags sticking out the top while his comrades pouches are closed. I realize that what Geoff said may be what the esablishment called for and I have done it but you can't run that way without the mags bouncing out of the pouch. Also I don't think a bandolier and two 36 grenades will fit in a basic pouch.
In one picture of the North Nova Scotia Regiment as well as wearing basic pouches on the front another set was incorporated onto the small pack. They fit so smoothly they look as though they are sewn together.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Art Johnson
Bren gun mags will not fit into a Basic Pouch and allow for the closing of the pouch I believe this is what led to the developement of the Bren Pouch which is much larger.

Hi Art;

I think you may be thinking of the Sten magazines, they would not fit into and allow for closure of the pouch. One of the reasons behind the design of the Pattern 1937 Web Equipment was the adoption of the Bren LMG to replace the Lewis Gun, the basic pouches (utility) were designed to hold Bren magazines, because of this. Dimensions: 5 1/2 inches wide (side to side), 8 inches high ( top to bottom) and 2 5/8 inches deep (front to back).

Cheers

Mark take it from me a Bren mag will not fit into a Basic Pouch and allow you to close the top. We used a Small Pack to carry our spare mags. Aside from that the new webbing was adopted in 1937 while the Bren was not approve until 1938

I finally got to view the photos at the tail end of the last page. All very interesting stuff.

I may have already asked, but don't recall asking,,

WHAT were the men (like my Uncle) carrying in terms of POUNDS! Any idea? 100lbs? More?

I know all of these guys had to have been very fit to carry the weight, get at what they needed in a efficiently and in a hurry to what they were carrying, and be able to move quickly and silently ... this all of course has had me wondering for a LONG time now about TRAINING ... (ah come on you guys, you KNEW I was going to get to asking about this part eventually, hey?) I assume that a lot of it was physical training for strength and stamina.

If my Uncle signed on Dec 26, 1941 and wasn't involved in any "actions" then what was he doing for 2 and a half years until heading for Juno Beach? All training? I know he did some training in Canada first, but assume there was a whole lot more in England, and that they would have been trained specifically for D-Day and Normandy (ground combat? is that th right terminology?).

I've read in a couple of places, can't recall where, that the soldiers didn't receive the training they should have, and needed. Is this a fact?

If true, that certainly didn't stop their success in Normandy in spite of that, and all the losses

I don't know if you want to answer any of my questions... or just give me a link to find out for myself

Thanks... Carman

[Regina]

Vets_Dottir - History Television is running a week of D-Day shows. Some of them are the same old, same old. Last night (Monday) they ran one called "D-Day on Juno Beach" (Turning Points of History) which had a good information on the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and their first few days in Normandy. Close to the end they showed a monument or plaque with a number of names from the RWR that were killed there. There were a couple of "Smiths" and I'm sure there was an "E. Smith" that I saw. There were also a number of interviews and comments by some of those from that unit that landed on D-Day. I think they will be running the show again on Sunday around dinner time and again very late the same night. May be worth your while to check it out?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

I found this and thought you might find it of interest,

From the War Diary of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles:

"June 6, 0400 hrs Tea and cold snack served.

0515 hrs LCA's manned and lowered 10 miles off coast.

0655 hrs Not a shot from shore; Royal Navy and arty bombardment opens up with the SP guns firing short as usual.

0749 hrs In spite of air bombardment failing to materialize, RN bombardment spotty, the rockets falling short and the AVRE's and D.D.'s being late, "C" Company C.S.R....RWR companies landed all within seven minutes.

0900 hrs The bombardment having failed to kill a single German or silence one weapon these companies had to storm their positions 'cold' and did so without hesitation.

1800 hrs "D" Company had by this time gapped a minefield at La Valette and cleared Graye Sur Mer. "B" Company crossed Seulles, cleared out 4 positions on the island......"A" coy started inland 0805 towards St. Croix pinned by 6 to 8 mgs. "C" coy approached Banville pinned down by 3 mgs. on commanding ground.

It is desired to make a special note of the services rendered to the Bn during the first day of ops by our MO (Capt Robert M. Caldwell) and the Bn RAP Staff - and the assault sec of 14 Cdn Fd Amb u/c Capt Harry Dixon. Not only were the wounded cared for with skill and despatch but confidence was developed and morale increased accordingly. A very special note, too, should be made about the general tone of the Bn during this day called D - 6 Jun 44. Not one man flinched from his task, no matter how tough it was - not one officer failed to display courage and energy and a degree of gallantry. It is thought that the Little Black Devils, by this days success, has managed to maintain the tradition set by former members. Casualties for the day exceeded 130."

I also found the War Diary page for 8 Jun 44 and will post it later for you.

Cheers

Originally posted by Regina
Vets_Dottir - History Television is running a week of D-Day shows. .......May be worth your while to check it out?

Hey Regina, how are you! Thanks for letting me know about all the shows. I'll try my best to catch some of them, but that's iffy. No access to History Channel here at my nephews. Darn. Maybe I can go visiting those that have it

Good to hear from you.

Carman

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Carman;

I found this and thought you might find it of interest,

From the War Diary of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles:

....A very special note, too, should be made about the general tone of the Bn during this day called D - 6 Jun 44. Not one man flinched from his task, no matter how tough it was - not one officer failed to display courage and energy and a degree of gallantry. It is thought that the Little Black Devils, by this days success, has managed to maintain the tradition set by former members. Casualties for the day exceeded 130."

I also found the War Diary page for 8 Jun 44 and will post it later for you.

Cheers

Yes Mark... VERY interesting. War diaries. Were the Commanding Officers the ones who did the diaries? It's so amazing that we can sit here and actually read them!

OF COURSE I'm VERY interestd in the entries for June 8.

Is there a published book of these diaries for Normandy time?

Thanks loads Mark...for these latest photos and posts.

Carman

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by V_D
Yes Mark... VERY interesting. War diaries. Were the Commanding Officers the ones who did the diaries?

The War Diary was usually done up by the Battalion's Adjutant and/or the Battalion's Intelligence Officer, after receiving the reports of the Companies on the days events/actions/etc

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

From the Royal Winnipeg Rifles War Diary for 8 June, 1944:

"Putot-en-Bessin
June 8, 1944

During the night enemy machine guns had fired from posns South of the rly, hoping to draw our fire and pin point our posns. At 0400 hrs enemy tks were heard across rly at 894720. As it became lighter, enemy tks, supported by inf attempted to cross the railway bridge in front of A Coy. The whole Bn area was subjected to enemy arty and mortar fire during this attack. This attack was repulsed by fire from A Coy assisted by one pl of MMGs, Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa, which were covering the rly br. Cpl Naylor's det of the A tk pl knocked out one PZKW Mark III tk, and one enemy armd car. During the early morning snipers came to life in the buildings throughout the town and made it increasingly difficult to move in the whole Bn area. At 1200 hrs more enemy had infiltrated into the town around our posns and there was direct enemy machine gun, mortar and arty fire on our LMG posts and individuals in slit trenches. It was impossible to get amn to the coys, even with a Bren carrier. At 1330 hrs, A, B and C Coys were completely surrounded by the enemy. The majority of their automatic weapons had been knocked out by the previous bombardment and they had no amn. An attempt was made to withdraw the survivors of these coys under cover of smoke, but only a few got back to BnHQ at 908725. During the morning our losses had been heavy but a great many of the enemy had been accounted for. The enemy attacked with at least two coys on each of our coy posns, with a vast superiority of automatic weapons. Armd sp was requested by us, and was promised, but never reached our posn. BnHQ was under fire all morning. Lt-Col Meldrum was able to visit coy posns on foot during the early morning, but later went fwd in the FOO tk, until this was subjected to direct enemy 88mm fire. Evacuation of casualties was difficult and stretcher bearers moved all day under fire. Capt R.M. Caldwell, the unit MO, attended casualties under fire, in the fwd posns. As soon as the coys had withdrawn, arty was brought down on the town, but this did not dislodge the enemy who had now surrounded BnHQ area by fire. D Coy, alone, withdrew nearly intact to a def posn around Bn HQ. Carriers patrolled the area and no enemy passed through the Bn posns to the rear. The remnants of the Bn held on until 2000 hrs when a barrage, by 4 regts arty, was laid down, starting from Bn HQ and moving up to the South side of the rly. The 1 Scot R put in an attack on the village supported by the 6 Armd Regt, which restored the situation. The Bn was withdrawn at 2300 hrs to La Bergerie Farm. Maj F.E. Hodge, OC A Coy, Capt P.E. Gower, OC B Coy were missing. Three coys had been almost completely wiped out. The flank protection gp remained intact at Bronay."

I've typed it the same that it appears in the diary. Below are two diagrams showing the positions of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles and the direction of the attacks by the 5th, 6th and 7th Companies, 2nd Battalion, 26th SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment on 8 June, 1944.

Amazing. I'll comment later

Thank you Mark.

Carman

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

From the history of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles regarding Putot - 8 Jun 44:

"Throughout the night of 7/8 the enemy fired machine guns on the company positions, hoping to draw fire and to pinpoint their locations. Along with this harrassing fire, mortars peppered the trenches in increasing numbers. Several casualties were suffered. About 0400 hours, enemy tanks were heard from across the bridge; the rumble of these tanks heralded the imminent attack on the Battalion. The Regiment stood to all night.

As dawn advanced, several armoured vehicles including one PZKW Mark III accompanied by enemy infantry tried to force their way across the railway bridge opposite Maj. Fred Hodge's A Company. Hodge's men with Bren guns and rifles opened fire on the advancing infantry. A platoon of machine guns with concentrated fire, manned by the Camerons of Ottawa and supporting this company, swept the enemy infantry away like a scythe to hay. Cpl. Naylor's 6-pounder A/T gun knocked out the Mark III and one armoured car. The enemy attack dissolved as quickly as it had materialized.

Throught the early hours, the pressure was steadily applied on the Regiment by the SS; as the barrage continued, the unit was pounded with air-bursting 88's and mortar fire which made things increasingly uncomfortable for the Regiment.

This was the prelude. By 0930 hours General Kurt Meyer's youthful troops were ready to take up the fight with the Little Black Devils. In support of his SS Grenadiers were 20 to 30 Panther and Tiger tanks, and his infantry totalled nearly two full battalions. It was obvious that the fight would be undertaken on an uneven scale against the Rifles. Meyer's troops, confident of throwing the "little fish" back into the sea, advanced in a cocky manner. As they ran forward, they were shouting to each other as if on a training exercise. They had been carefully selected, well trained, steeped in Nazi doctrine, and encouraged to be brutal in war.

It was going to be a battle of youth versus youth, for the average age of rifleman in the re-inforced battalion was about 19. So the young members of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, with no tanks to support them and few anti-tank guns, awaited the onslaught of these SS troops with determined defiance. Enfields, Stens, and Bren guns opened up on Meyer's advancing infantry. Enemy mortars and artillery fire slammed round after round into company positions. Reminiscent of the First World War, the Germans were cut down in swaths; determinedly, and not to be dissuaded, the "Hitler Jugend" steadily advanced.

By noon the enemy had infiltrated the village. They were able to pour enfilade fire into A and C Companies positions. Exposed in their slit trenches, these men took heavy casualties.

The gallant stand by the Regiment is now a matter of record. When the enemy occupied the village, several Panzers broke through the Battalion's position at 1300 hours. The three companies - A, B and C - were now completely isolated in the ruins of the vilage and orchard.

It was next to impossible to bring ammunition from Battalion headquarters to the isolated companies. A troop of 17-pounders in B Company's area knocked out three tanks before they were knocked out. It was an overwhelming experience for the Regiment. Unable to get support for his beleagured Battalion, Lt.-Col. Meldram, nevertheless, was able to slip forward to visit all companies and to assess the situation.

It took a certain type of soldier to dig in and fight it out when overrun - and the Regiment was filled with this type. Each company (although cut off from each other) did not bolt from its position when things became too hot. The German tanks milled about them, machine-gunning many rifleman crouched in their slit-trenches. Not content to let "Gerry" have it all his way, many tackled these tanks. Piats were fired from slit trenches - knocking out several tanks as they were rolling over the trenches.

Platoons were now reduced to sections, but the fight continued despite the uneven odds. Pressing their advantage of uneven odds, the enemy was able to push back the Battalion's remains to the edge of Putot, where they grimly held on. Only D Company (Maj. L.R. Fulton) plus Support Company remained of Col. Meldram's Regiment. By nightfall, the 3rd Canadian Division mounted a counter-attack to restore the situation at Putot. Tanks supported the Canadian Scottish in this well-executed attack.

Nearly three companies were lost to a man; in all the Regiment suffered 300 casualties, more than half its full fighting strength. That night CQMS Z. Ehinger brought up the rations for B Company and was surprised to find only six men remained."

[Mark W. Tonner]

Carman;

The attached image is of a sample of the letter that was sent to the next-of-kin of the murdered Rifleman, that was mailed on December 6, 1945, this was the first knowledge that the families received of the murders. Following the June 8 murders, they were informed that the soldiers had been killed in action, or in Eddie's case, that he was missing in action.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Vets_Dottir
Hi Everyone. I've checked several times for possible spelling errors and to make sure I missed no mans name. If anyone spots any errors...please let me know asap so I can edit/fix it `yesterday'. Thank you...Carman


_---------------------------------------

FROM the BOOK:
`Conduct Unbecoming: The Story of the Murder
of Canadian Prisoners of War in Normandy.
BY: Howard Margolian
Copyright: University of Toronto Press Incorporated 1998.

Meakin, Frank V.
Meakin, George E.

Carman;

Were you aware that these two were brothers, from Birnie, Manitoba. They were both with "A" Company, Royal Winnipeg Rifles at Putot on 8 Jun 44.

YES Mark ... I knew those men were brothers because I came across that information as well (I forget where!) I feel for the family.

That letter that was sent to the families is the exact same letter I hav a copy of, that was sent to Granny and Grandpa.

Only Granny received the letter, Grandpa died in a house fire, along with Granny's father on Sept. 17, 1945, BEFORE this letter was sent. So Grandpa never knew he was murdered, but a couple of months before the fire (about Jun 8th,1945)he had been informed (telegram?) that Uncle Eddie was confirmed KIA.

Normandy claimed their son and their son inlaw, Philip Genaille (Philip died June 6, Juno Beach)
Aunty Annie was pregnant when Philip went off to war so father and son never had a chance to meet. Sad huh?

NOTE ... how the day my grandfather and great Grandfather died also happened to fall on Uncle Eddie's birthday. He was born Sept. 17, 1922.

The group of 40 my Uncle was with ... imagine what aday all those mens families went through to get that telegram/letter all on the same day I assume. Incredible.

Incredible stories all round, period.

By the way ... to add a little personality to Uncle Eddie ... people say that he could be a real "devil" ... they didn't mean Little Black Devil

Thanks Mark.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

... tomorrow morning early. Karmen, we will honour your family appropriately.

Take care and hold the fort for me while I'm gone. I'll be in touch soon as I get back.

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
... tomorrow morning early. Karmen, we will honour your family appropriately.

Take care and hold the fort for me while I'm gone. I'll be in touch soon as I get back.

Thank you.

I sometimes just feel so dammed sad about all this because this is my family ... too many blows too close together. Our men.

Lift your hand in a salute to ALL those soldiers at rest in Beny Sur Mer for me G. Special from me. What powerful feelings everyone will have.

Regards the forum ... not to worry, I took a little military training for Yappy's ... and can really BITE.

Love Karmen

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by V_D
Lift your hand in a salute to ALL those soldiers at rest in Beny Sur Mer for me G. Special from me. What powerful feelings everyone will have.

"They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them"

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
"They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them"

Yes.

[DaveCox]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
"They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old
Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them"

We will remember them.........

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

SUNRAY is now NINER, en route.

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
SUNRAY is now NINER, en route.

Incidentally, the power of DELETE now resides here.

SUNRAY has left orders with SH. Sigs. Clerk since himself and McSpool are temporarily disconnected from Div.HQ. comms net.

R.
SH.SC.