Bedford military-front and civvy-front types

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Thanks very much for the input. I am sure that my co-author Professor Alan Earnshaw and myself would wish to recognise the various contributions through MLU as regards captions and identification, come publication time.

I'm sure some of the members here would be willing to proof-read the manuscript.

H.

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by gordon

http://lvaimage.lib.va.us/cgi-bin/ph...VTLS/SC/19/055

That looks like an experiment to me, as the barge pole is still in place (one of the loose items I would stow inside)

Interesting collection of photo's. Thanks for the link. Rick

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Hanno, I am very sorry but there seems to have been some misinterpretation on my part! I sincerely apologise and it is down to misreading my census lists...the correct, by 1944 designation was of course:
S 5582614 to 5582863
S 6184311 to 6184319 "SM 2645 S.P.M. 40 mm"

These Pearsons rebuilds included S 5582815 and I think 5582817, and date to late wartime. However, IWM photo KID 3087 clearly shows what I believe to be a newish vehicle, number H 5582702, and in fact the 1942? photo in Liverpool shows Census Number H 5582746 in front. So, these were originally classified as tractors, but rebuilt/converted to SPMs. Interestingly the same vehicles may have been 'assembled' by Pearsons and then rebuilt by them, although I use that word loosely. Certainly they were not towing any trailers in the late war photos. I am really open to suggestions as to the work done and perhaps a high-res scan might assist?

May I suggest that the designation as 'tractors' initially was inaccurate? I understand from notes from earlier discussions through MLU that the trailers housed the British-built "Predictor, AA, No.3, Mk1" or ‘Kerrison Predictor’ manufactured by ‘M & P. Ltd.’ . Would the late war 'work' have been in connection with the dropping of the trailer-borne equipment then?

Keith wants a view of the axles. I will see what I can do as my colleague has access to the very high resolution scans and I will endeavour to supply what I can.

As regards the Lt AA (SM 2487), I have a Xerox of a IWM photo of one of these presumably when new, photo KID 1968.

Thank you for the kind offer of assistance with proofing. Some work has been done already and it would be most helpful in due course.

Best wishes!

[Keith Webb]

Keith wants a view of the axles. I will see what I can do as my colleague has access to the very high resolution scans and I will endeavour to supply what I can.

Thanks David

Just something which shows the steering box would be all we need.

Keith

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Wilco. I have no idea though what detail is visible.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Another late-war shot showing self-propelled F30B units with a GPW towing a trailer, with a 20-cwt trailer?? in the road round the corner.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by David_Hayward

These Pearsons rebuilds included S 5582815 and I think 5582817, and date to late wartime. However, IWM photo KID 3087 clearly shows what I believe to be a newish vehicle, number H 5582702, and in fact the 1942? photo in Liverpool shows Census Number H 5582746 in front. So, these were originally classified as tractors, but rebuilt/converted to SPMs. Interestingly the same vehicles may have been 'assembled' by Pearsons and then rebuilt by them, although I use that word loosely.

David,

I have watched this thread with interest and have found the original large photo of the F60B outside Pearsons, Census no. H5582746 ( in thread "C39Q truck" dated 28/2/04 ). It is my conclusion that this was not a rebuild from another vehicle, but was produced in Canada as a SP Bofors. It is from Contract No. SM 2645 and shown in Chilwell list as prefixed "S". The most likely answer is that it was never intended to be "H", just a mistake on someones part, either in the Ministry of Supply or Pearsons. it is not the first time I have seen a Wartime photo of a vehicle with the incorrect prefix. Another from this contract, 5582742 is shown in the Canadian Vehicle Data Book issued during the war and is prefixed "S".

The photo would date no earlier than 1944, I am sure, going by the sequence of Census numbers, because in those batches prior to this vehicle are Austin K6 Gantry trucks which did not arrive until 1944 and also a contract for BSA M20 m/cycles which were supplied during 1944.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Richard, thanks for the input. We might in fact have a date for the two original photos. These would have been a 1942 delivery (at earliest) I would say from the contract number*. I have just checked the original photo and it clearly shows "H etc". and I have just checked the official Kidbrooke photo of the representative lorry, and it carries the "H" prefix and 5582702. However it clearly states in the description "Ford 3 ton 4x4 carrier 40 mm SP Bofors". The front axle is clearly visible by the way!

I suggest that these lorries were originally designated in the 'tractor' series, and this was a mistake/misdescription, though the fact that the official photograph shows the mistake is interesting. When those vehicles that were reburbished at the earliest in October 1944 by Pearons, they had apprarenly lost their trailers and I suggest that the opportunity was taken to rectify the census number. The photo I have from outside Pearson's works shows that they used (at least) two ways of applying the census number on the cab side. I would like to ask therefore if the concensus is that these Bofors Fords were, when first assembled, designated as though they were tractors although they never were and that this was therefore a misnomer?

As to dating I remind that the photos clearly show the allocated 'Willys' Ben Hur trailers with the predictors, whereas the late war shots with the corrected census prefixes show that no trailers were used. I will endeavour though to see if the early photos have date codes. We know the locations, and from other evidence it must have been at least 1942.

Regarding prefix changes, we know that this was the case, or rather there was confusion, with Mack lorries assembled by Pearsons: NM5 and NO6 were supposed to be tractors, hence 'H' prefixes, but two NM5s according to the record card were lorries, hence 'L' prefixes and the two photos we have of a NO6, which should officially have 'H' prefixes has an 'L' one. Great fun!



*On reflection I wonder if the record cards exist at Bovington?