military history for those up north

Ponysoldier · #1 02-11-05, 07:50

Ok a quick question for my friends north of the border.
What is the only Fort in the US.,that was was occupied
by the British army, royal marines,and the US army
at the same Time......
Patrick

c. ladouceur (RIP) · #2 03-11-05, 00:24

Would it be Ticonderoga (July 5, 1777)? JUST GUESSING!

Ponysoldier · #3 03-11-05, 01:29

Cliff
No thats not it, I forgot to add that this is gunna be a tuffy
Pat

wayne c. petrie · #4 04-11-05, 12:07

Is it Ft.A.P.Hill,Va.,2001?

Wayne

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #5 04-11-05, 17:35

Wasn't A.P.Hill general of the Blach Hats(N.Y Irish regiment) and killed in a charge at Gettysburg??Whats' with the year 2001??
Signed
Stumped

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #6 04-11-05, 19:46

Sorry about my last post.Harry Heath was the Black Hat's general.I Think A.P. Hill was the confederate general who led the charge againgt Chamberlaine on Little Round Top

wayne c. petrie · #7 05-11-05, 03:21

The British Royal Marines trained at Ft.A.P.Hill,Va., in 2001.
Due to an outbreak of Foot and mouth , at thier base[?] in Briton,they opted to train in the U.S. at Ft.A.P.Hill.
I found this out on a Google search.
The question of Pony Soldier is a real poser.
The only way I can see these units occuping a fort together is during the exchange of territory,[1777]:War of 1812,giving back captuered forts,both sides,,or training exercises.

Wayne

Ponysoldier · #8 05-11-05, 03:40

Ok since we are getting close,I'm gunna spill the beans.
In 1859 during a border dispute.English camp on San Juan
island, was garrisoned by HM Royal Army, HM Royal Marines
and US Calvary(dismounted). They celebrated the Queens
Birthday and the forth of July togeather,No KIA'S No WIA'S.
The US. garrison's commander was A capt.Pickett ( General
Pickett CSA. (Picketts Charge)
Must have been one heck of a party, wonder how many
MLU'ERS were ( Master Sunray??) there?

Patrick

alleramilitaria · #9 05-11-05, 04:08

AP Hill was over run with british military in 2001, i remember that entire rgts. rotated out of the fort for training.

wayne c. petrie · #10 05-11-05, 04:57

Verrrryyy interesting. A part of Canadian/US history that I did not know about.
Thanks for the info.
I knew though, of the border dispute in the Yukon,[gold rush days,circa 1900's].

Wayne

Bruce MacMillan · #11 05-11-05, 07:14

You are talking about the Pig War. It was actually a beef between some Yankee settlers and the Hudson's Bay Company. Got blown out of proportion. Apparently the local US commander thought he could declare war against the British without Washington knowing about it. Eventually settled peacefully. Both sides partied together but camped at opposite ends of San Juan Island. There was no joint occupation of a fort. US President James Buchanan was a bit choked at US General Haney's attitude and had General of the Army Winfield Scott remove him.

Britain and the US had Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany arbitrate and the island group was eventually awarded to the US.

There are some nice forts and remnants throught the Pacific northwest. Remember the Spaniards were the first to visit this area in 1774.

centurion · #12 06-11-05, 18:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce MacMillan
. Both sides partied together but camped at opposite ends of San Juan Island.

In Europe in the 18th century and the very early 19th it was not unusual for combatants to knock off from hostilities during holidyays and attend social events together (Christmas 1914 was a distant echo of this). There is an example (7 years War I think) of a besieging force achieving a breach in a fortified town just before a holiday. Warlike activities were suspended and a stage built in the breach. A ball was held - both sides attending. The stage was then dismantled and the next day the storming party went in. In the diary of the Broitish Seaman John Wetheral (who was a POW in France in the early 19th Century) there is an account of British POWs ( other ranks and officers) held near Calais being allowed out on parole at Christmas and allowed to take the ferry packet (still running in wartime!) home to England so long as they reported back at the prison after the holiday. It was basically Napoleon who introduced much more of a total war ethos and such civilised behavious soon lapsed.

Alex Blair (RIP) · #13 06-11-05, 19:30

Quote:

Originally posted by centurion
In Europe in the 18th century and the very early 19th it was not unusual for combatants to knock off from hostilities during holidyays and attend social events together (Christmas 1914 was a distant echo of this). There is an example (7 years War I think) of a besieging force achieving a breach in a fortified town just before a holiday. Warlike activities were suspended and a stage built in the breach. A ball was held - both sides attending. The stage was then dismantled and the next day the storming party went in. In the diary of the Broitish Seaman John Wetheral (who was a POW in France in the early 19th Century) there is an account of British POWs ( other ranks and officers) held near Calais being allowed out on parole at Christmas and allowed to take the ferry packet (still running in wartime!) home to England so long as they reported back at the prison after the holiday. It was basically Napoleon who introduced much more of a total war ethos and such civilised behavious soon lapsed.

The holiday effect took place in Korea and music was played across no mans land and the shooting died down and a friend of mine who was a sniper with the PPCLI related this story to me/..
Christmas eve with the music going some Chinese snipers snuck out into no mans land across from the Canadian lines..
They brought parcels of rice and little Chinese flags and left them out in the open..
Figguring a trap,but bored,daring and curious a Canadian sniper team snuck out and carefully retrieved the little packages..They were not impeded or shot at and all was quiet..
Once back safely back at their line and knowing full well the Chinese were watching they snuck back out with some rations and some hastily dug up goodies and snuck back out and left them where the Chinese snipers had left the rice..
American troops on the flanks were watching this and when the Canadians snuck back to their lines and watched while the Chinese sniper team crawled out to retrieve their Christmas gifts..
When they got to the pile of goodies the Canadian snipers took them out..
My friend said that it was instant bedlam..
Chinese ,North Korean opened up on the Canadian lines as well as the American troops on the flanks who were pissed at the Canadians for stiring up the Chinese and the unsportsman like ethics of the Canadians//
Any of the ex PPCLI reading this may know the story .
.

centurion · #14 06-11-05, 20:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Alex Blair
The holiday effect took place in Korea and music was played across no mans land and the shooting died down and a friend of mine who was a sniper with the PPCLI related this story to me/..
Christmas eve with the music going some Chinese snipers snuck out into no mans land across from the Canadian lines..
They brought parcels of rice and little Chinese flags and left them out in the open..
Figguring a trap,but bored,daring and curious a Canadian sniper team snuck out and carefully retrieved the little packages..They were not impeded or shot at and all was quiet..
Once back safely back at their line and knowing full well the Chinese were watching they snuck back out with some rations and some hastily dug up goodies and snuck back out and left them where the Chinese snipers had left the rice..
American troops on the flanks were watching this and when the Canadians snuck back to their lines and watched while the Chinese sniper team crawled out to retrieve their Christmas gifts..
When they got to the pile of goodies the Canadian snipers took them out..
My friend said that it was instant bedlam..
Chinese ,North Korean opened up on the Canadian lines as well as the American troops on the flanks who were pissed at the Canadians for stiring up the Chinese and the unsportsman like ethics of the Canadians//
Any of the ex PPCLI reading this may know the story .
.

Were they French Canadian (pardon my un PC ?

) following the Napoleonic approach?

Alex Blair (RIP) · #15 06-11-05, 22:17

Quote:

Originally posted by centurion
Were they French Canadian (pardon my un PC ? ) following the Napoleonic approach?

The rest of the team ,I don't know...My buddy that was one of the team....Nope!!
Just plain old Canadian farm boy...

Ponysoldier · #16 10-11-05, 02:59

Hello All
I had been taught that Capt.James Cook HM Navy was
in that corner of the world first.If Im wrong I stand corrected

Patrick

Bruce MacMillan · #17 10-11-05, 03:17

Juan Perez of the Spanish navy came up from California in 1774 and explored and mapped the coast. There are many islands and other place names that are of Spanish origin here.

James Cook arrived in 1778 on his way to Hawaii. He should have stayed here as he was the first tourist murdered in Hawaii.

Ponysoldier · #18 10-11-05, 05:58

I stand corrected
Patrick

Lang · #19 07-12-05, 06:11

I recently had a great week at Friday Harbour on beautiful San Juan Island and visited both the well preserved American "fort" and the British "fort".

The storyboards on site are very informative giving some slight idea of the isolated boredom both camps must have suffered.

The dispute arose when the previously ill defined border was being formalised. The obvious thing was for it to just go straight west as an extension of the land border. Unfortunately the winding deep water channels serving the two great ports of Seattle and Vancouver would have been cut by a straight line forcing ships to enter each other's territorial waters.

Both sides wanted a free run for their ships so claimed San Juan Island and its adjacent channel where the main bottleneck occurred. After a ridiculous stand-off (including the infamous pig-shooting but fortunately no man-shooting) the two governments went, in an amazingly late twentieth century political action, to a third country for arbitration.

The Kaiser with typical German practical thinking said in so many words "Forget the politics, get real and put the border along the path best suited to a sensible compromise" As a result there is one of the most twisting borders one can find on a map. The USA did end up with San Juan Island but the Canadians can still get to Vancouver without entering US territory.

If only we had more Kaisers in today's world to knock a few heads together!

Lang

centurion · #20 09-12-05, 21:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Lang
I recently had a great week at Friday Harbour on beautiful San Juan Island and visited both the well preserved American "fort" and the British "fort".

in an amazingly late twentieth century political action,

[Really amazing given that it was in the late 1800s (19th Century)]

If only we had more Kaisers in today's world to knock a few heads together!

Lang

Yes he could help start another World War

Dean Owen · #21 10-12-05, 02:05

Both A.P. Hill and "Henry" Heath were Confederate Generals..and both were at Gettysburg...Federal General Reynolds was moving forward on the 1st Day..leading a group that included the Iron Brig. ( Known as the Black Hats as they wore the "Hardee Hat" instead of the more comfortable Kepi) He was shot and killed..the area is known as Reynolds Woods. Just found this..
"He was struck down as he tried to rally his men of the First Corps' Iron Brigade and support General Buford's outnumbered cavalry who valiantly fought against determined, advancing Confederate forces. Dying instantly."

Dean