Centurion Arrives in BC

[jdmcm]

Andy, I am in the midst of rebuilding all my external bins as they are also in bad shape, with much of the bottoms rotted out, so I would be more than happy to assist rebuilding yours as well if that is any help

Regards
John

[Jason Ginn]

Ed do you know if by chance the cents CAR's used the last 3 of the hull number? Just noticed in the pic the CAR matches the ROF hull number 190.

IiRC the CAR prefixes werent gospel. They seem to be used for date of delivery instead of contract depending in the order sizes and delivery dates for some vehicles.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

I have been looking over my list of Canadian CFRs and there was a Centurion Mk 5 53-81190 but I do not have its' particular WD No. The joy with CFRs is that even though the system is set up with the first two digits being the year and the last five being unique to a particular vehicle, I have not yet in over a decade of study seen the last five numbers being used twice at the same time. So for example I have not encountered say 52-81190 and a 53-81190 being used at the same time. Generally what happens is once a CFR is discontinued then the last five can then be reissued to another vehicle with a different year and I have seen this occur with quite a few of the older CFRs, such as those to the M37CDNs, which were reissued to newer model vehicles. Unfortunately once the number is reissued the data for the older vehicle is not retained which makes study and recording very difficult.

In the case of British manufactured AFVs, like the Ferret and the Centurion, Canada recorded the War Department Number as a form of serial number. The WD number consisted of two numbers/two letters/two numbers and I must admit am not sure how the British allocation worked for particular vehicle types although I do know that WD No. is used on the licence plates of British military vehicles. As I stated in an earlier post, the WD No. along with the CFR was stamped into a brass plaque which was mounted inside the hull of the AFV. Perhaps like the Ferret the CFR was also stamped somewhere on the hull.

My records correlating Centurion CFRs to WD Nos is very much a patchwork with more holes then patches but I can report that the nearest Centurion to 53-81190 in which I have most of the data; Centurion Mk 5 53-81185 was listed with a WD No. as 16 BA 14. Of course just to make the whole process more challenging, where I do have a consecutive series of CFRs with corresponding WD Nos., the WD Nos. are out of sequence.

[Aide Memoire]

Originally Posted by rob love

Or could it have been a British used Centurion rescued from being a target in Wainwright or Suffield. Did the British operate in those two locations in the 70s (certainly they did in Suffield)? We certainly did see British supplied armour on the ranges throughout the 80s and onwards. And we have seen some of that make it's way out as monuments, often set up to represent Canadian service.

Something just came up on the 'Canadian Military Vehicles' Facebook group which made this worth revisiting. The Centurion that was owned by Crown Surplus made its way into the Jacques Littlefield collection, got auctioned a few years ago, and is now on its way to the Pima Air and Space Collection where they're apparently starting a ground combat vehicle grouping.

Paraphrasing Ken Raychert, the Crown Surplus Centurion was apparently an ex-Fort Garry Horse tank which wound up in a group of 16 ex-CDN Centurions at Levy Auto Parts, which were then sold to the Brits to use as hard targets at Suffield. The Crown Surplus tank, supposedly 53-81228, was the only one sold privately by Levy - with the rest off to the ranges.

If that's all true - Canadian tanks were on the ranges at Suffield - where the one we have here in Aldergrove is supposed to have come from - so it might be one of the 16 that Levy had.

** I say 'supposedly 53-81228' because that CAR is duplicated on a Centurion displayed at CFB Kingston for some reason.

[Aide Memoire]

Originally Posted by Dennis Cardy

Paid a quick visit to the Aldergrove Legion today, Thurs. 28 Nov, 2019.
They are very happy about the Centurion project.

I was shown the spot where it will be placed. High visibility, right next to busy main road through the middle of Aldergrove. Next to the Cenotaph, where the sign, flag pole, and the concrete pavers are.

Unfortunately that did not progress because of a bunch of reasons that are all spelled "liability". Seems to be happening with a lot of existing monuments too as entities start fearing they'll be sued if some visitor rediscovers the law of gravity while climbing on it. As a result the whole cosmetic rehab project stalled at the same time and is still struggling to get back nearer the top of the Job Jar.

[Wayne Hingley]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

** I say 'supposedly 53-81228' because that CAR is duplicated on a Centurion displayed at CFB Kingston for some reason.

Did these tanks get a stamped CAR somewhere, like most other SMP vehicles from the early 50s?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

Unfortunately that did not progress because of a bunch of reasons that are all spelled "liability". Seems to be happening with a lot of existing monuments too as entities start fearing they'll be sued if some visitor rediscovers the law of gravity while climbing on it. As a result the whole cosmetic rehab project stalled at the same time and is still struggling to get back nearer the top of the Job Jar.

Where is the Centurion now?