C8AX production

[Tony Smith]

Al Nicholson has spotted this one on E-bay.au in Queensland, Aust.
Serial -747
Eng PR3963973
Date 5 June 43

C8AX Dalby.jpg C8ax-747.jpg

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Data added to my collection thanks!

[Lynn Eades]

Obviously it should read "FR" not "PR"

[Tony Smith]

Oops! An "FU" on my Part!

[AnzacPJ]

Hi Lads, I can tell the reason why there are in gaps in the dates. I was lucky to talk to an old chap a few years ago Tom Cadallader who was in charge of all CKD assembly from 1935-54. In fact there were four lots of assembly of the C8AX by GM Motors (Todd Bros, Petone)
The problem with the Petone Plant was by 1942 it was in full swing as a repair base for the U.S. Army for damaged Dodge vehicles, personnel & ammunition carriers from the Pacific. So by 1943 storage at the plant was tight and so the crates of CKD C8AX could only be assembled in small lots when room was avalible.
Ah you ask 'What about the dates on the plates?' I have you answer, At the time a lot of the CKD crates were mixed up and were hard to access due to a full yard behind the plant so they would go around and do a rough estimate of what was at hand that could be completely assembled with what time frame they had in between U.S. vehicles arriving from the Pacific, so when they found 200 or so C8AX ready for assembly the would stamp the 200 or so plates that day or the next place them in a box with the new numbers for the crates and have them pigon holed for assembly line.
I hope this has been the light at the end of the tunnel.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

This is the up-to-date listing now (known to me):

XH8448-073 ENGINE # FR3867782 MFGD. 5 - 3 – 43
XH8448-079 ENGINE # FR3862924 MFGD. 5 3-43
XH8448-080 ENGINE # FR3852622
XH8448-087 FR3838752 MFGD. 5 3-43
XH8448-161 ENGINE # FR3838745 MFGD. 5 3 43
XH8448-199 ENGINE # FR? MFGD. 5 3-43
XH8448-229 ENGINE # FR3863719 MFGD. 5 3-43
XH8448-252
XH8448-254 ENGINE # FR3863431 MFGD. 5 4-43
XH8448-273 ENGINE # FR3863445
XH8448-275 MFGD. 5 4 43 ?
XH8448-322 ENGINE # FR3863983 MFGD. 5 4-43
XH8448-339 ENGINE # FR3864029 MFGD. 5-4-43
XH8448-377 ENGINE # FR3863573 MFGD. 5 5-43
XH8448-382 ENGINE # FR3863937 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-392 ENGINE # FR3864366MFGD. 5-5-43
XH8448-394 ENGINE # FR3.863668 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-419 ENGINE # FR3863618 MFGD. 5 5-43
XH8448-427 ENGINE # FR3863894 MFGD. 5 5-43
XH8448-428 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-452
XH8448-459 ENGINE # FR3863469 MFGD. 5-5-43
XH8448-481 ENGINE # FR3863988 MFGD. 5-5-43
XH8448-496 ENGINE # FR3863872 MFGD. 5 5-43
XH8448-497 ENGINE # FR3863875 MFGD. # 5- 5-43
XH8448-502 ENGINE # FR3863593 MFGD. 5 5-43
XH8448-564 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-594 ENGINE # FR3863668 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-606 ENGINE # FR3864085 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-611 ENGINE # FR 3864083 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-622 ENGINE # FR3863893 MFGD. 5 4-43
XH8448-634 ENGINE # FR3864089 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-650 ENGINE # FR3883923 MFGD. 5 MAY-43
XH8448-657 ENGINE # FR3864068 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-718 ENGINE # FR3864330 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-721 ENGINE # FR3864172 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-747 ENGINE # PR3,963,973 DATE 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-833 ENGINE # FR3863827 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-834 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-870 ENGINE # FR38635?4 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH9448-887 ENGINE # FR3863776 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-890 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-891 ENGINE # FR38638?2
XH8448-903

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

APJ, that makes sense thanks! These CKD crates were mixed up, and the Engine Number mixes seem to prove that this was the 'case' if you'll excuse the pun.

The 'XH' code obviously indicates General Motors New Zealand Ltd, founded Petone in October 1926. The only other plant to allocated an 'X' code so far as I know was GM South African Pty Ltd in Port Elizabeth, code 'XG'. GM-Holden's generally just used the city code for each assembly plant, and did not use an 'H', e.g. 'HA' for Adelaide until the 1950s I think when the 'X' codes were abolished in favour of codes abbreviated from the city or company, e.g. 'NZ' for Upper Hutt, NZ, 'SA' for South Africa, and for our Dutch friends, 'C' or 'CA' for GM Continental, Antwerp.

[Rob Beale]

There were three assembly plants in the Petone / Seaview area which is just north of the capital city, Wellington. ie: Ford, GM and Todd (Chrysler/Dodge)

I am puzzled: were Todds assembling GM products?

Rob

Incidentally the Todd family are now NZ's wealthiest family enterrprise.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
ALL S/M 2394: [ASSEMBLED BY G.M. NEW ZEALAND, CODE XH]
XH8448-067
XH8447-087 MFGD. 5 3 43
XH8448-229 ENGINE # FR3863719 MFGD. 5 3 43
XH8448-275 MFGD. 4 MAY 43
XH8448-377 ENGINE # FR3863573 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-382 ENGINE # FR3863937 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-428 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-496 ENGINE # FR3863872 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-502 ENGINE # FR3863593 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-564 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-594 ENGINE # FR3863668 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-606 ENGINE # FR3864085 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-657 ENGINE # FR3864068 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-718 ENGINE # FR3864330 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-721 ENGINE # FR3864172 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-834 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-870 ENGINE # FR38635?4 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-890 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-903

Do we agree that the '3' and '5' are indedd March and May respectively? Otherwise why would the second digit be so close to the year?

I do think that "3" and "5" do mean March and May. Do you have a pic of the plate for -275? I suspect that the plate's date should actually read 5-4-43 for 5th April.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Could well be right! I only have one photo on record and four actual plates' details...does anyone recognise # 275 please?

[Brent Delaney]

Hello Board,

Here are a couple of mine to add to the list.........

XH8448-254 ENGINE # FR3863431 MFGD. 5 4 43

This one is still drivable, and has a crane jib attached to it.

Also this one which you will find elsewhere on MLU.......

XH8448-322 ENGINE # FR 3863983 MFGD. 5 4 43

Thanks,

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Could you please confirm that the BUILD DATES are:
"5 4-43" style?

It seems that the the date-month-year and month-date-uear systems were both used on CMPs, depending on assembly country, say, and also we have the month either stamped out complete or as a digit.


This is my latest list therefore, which suggests that there were indeed April `1943 'MFGD.' plates.

ALL S/M 2394: [ASSEMBLED BY G.M. NEW ZEALAND, CODE XH]
XH8448-067
XH8447-087 MFGD. 5 3 43
XH8448-229 ENGINE # FR3863719 MFGD. 5 3 43
XH8448-254 ENGINE # FR3863431 MFGD. 5 4 43
XH8448-275 MFGD. 5 4 43 ?
XH8448-322 ENGINE # FR3863983 MFGD. 5 4 43
XH8448-377 ENGINE # FR3863573 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-382 ENGINE # FR3863937 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-428 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-496 ENGINE # FR3863872 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-502 ENGINE # FR3863593 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-564 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-594 ENGINE # FR3863668 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-606 ENGINE # FR3864085 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-657 ENGINE # FR3864068 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-718 ENGINE # FR3864330 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-721 ENGINE # FR3864172 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-834 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-870 ENGINE # FR38635?4 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-890 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-903


Note the wide disparity in engine numbers compared to assembly sequence.

[Brent Delaney]

Hi David,

Yes info appears correct, here is one of the data plates.

[Rob Beale]

Dave

some more numbers for your records of C8AX

XH 8448 079 FR 3862924 5 3-43
XH 8448 080 FR 3852622 not seen - will chase up
XH 8448 087 FR 3838752 5 3-43
XH 8448 273 FR 3863445 not seen - will chase up
XH 8448 419 FR 3863618 5 5-43
XH 8448 833 FR 3863827 5 JUNE 43
XH 8448 891 FR 38638?2 not seen - plate lost

There will be opportunity to get some more numbers in the next few months

Rob
C8AX Ambulance, 4 stretcher

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Present list is now:

ALL S/M 2394: [ASSEMBLED BY G.M. NEW ZEALAND, CODE XH]
XH8448-067
XH 8448-079 ENGINE # FR3862924 MFGD. 5 3-43
XH 8448-080 ENGINE # FR3852622
XH8448-087 FR3838752 MFGD. 5 3-43
XH8448-229 ENGINE # FR3863719 MFGD. 5 3 43
XH8448-254 ENGINE # FR3863431 MFGD. 5 4 43
XH8448-273 ENGINE # FR3863445
XH8448-275 MFGD. 5 4 43 ? must be!!
XH8448-322 ENGINE # FR3863983 MFGD. 5 4 43
XH8448-377 ENGINE # FR3863573 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-382 ENGINE # FR3863937 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8449-394 ENGINE # FR3.863,668 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-419 ENGINE # FR3863618 MFGD. 5 5-43
XH8448-428 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-496 ENGINE # FR3863872 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-502 ENGINE # FR3863593 MFGD. 5 5 43
XH8448-564 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-594 ENGINE # FR3863668 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-606 ENGINE # FR3864085 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-622 ENGINE # FR3863893 MFGD. 5 4 43
XH8448-657 ENGINE # FR3864068 MFGD. 5 MAY 43
XH8448-718 ENGINE # FR3864330 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-721 ENGINE # FR3864172 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-833 ENGINE # FR3863827 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-834 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-870 ENGINE # FR38635?4 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-890 MFGD. 5 JUNE 43
XH8448-891 ENGINE # FR38638?2
XH8448-903

[Mike K]

Arthur Poll had a new GS body made for his truck, to the original pattern. Some years ago , he rang me and we had a nice chat , he also kindly helped me out with some drawings of the GS body . I've been told he has sold the C8AX recently ....?

Some people say the GS bodies were made by the NZ post office workshops , others say it was the Govt. railways workshops . Does anyone know ? The GS bodies were a very crudely made thing , rough oxy welds held it all together . Whoever made them , didn't have access to a spot welder. I had never seen corners oxy welded together before, until I saw a C8AX body ! I cannot imagine the bodies would have held together for long . Once the wooden bearers rotted , the whole thing would have collapsed .

The C8AX's pictured above ( except Arthurs) all seem to have non original bodies fitted . There was a LWB version of the body built also , same as the C8AX GS body, but stretched ,it was fitted on the C60L chassis ?

A friend in the Nth island is restoring a house type wireless body for his C8AX , he's done heaps of research and its still a guessing game as to what's correct and what isnt' It's a complicated affair on a wooden frame . There was one getting around , a mock up of the wireless version , not that original though . They had the ZC1 radio set fitted in them .

And , don't forget that the aussie found C8AX's actually did see active service in the Bouganville area. We think they were sold in situ as a lot, to the highest bidder , rather than being transported back to NZ . So , in a funny way , that makes them very special . They were there !

Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
There was a LWB version of the body built also , same as the C8AX GS body, but stretched ,it was fitted on the C60L chassis ?

The "Stretched" body was for the 134"wb F30 and C60S.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
The "Stretched" body was for the 134"wb F30 and C60S.

Isn't this the Canadian Derrick body?



In that case, wasn't the C8AX body copied off this design and shortened?

H.

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Isn't this the Canadian Derrick body? In that case, wasn't the C8AX body copied off this design and shortened?

Hmmm, interesting! Compare the rear of this C8AX body with the rear of the Derrick bodies in this thread. While there less "panels" in the sides, and the height of the sides are lower, the two body types ARE similar.

[Tony Smith]

And then, of course, there is the NZ Pattern Derrick on an F30, which has the same same layout of stowage lockers, but no sides at all!

[cliff]

Going on what I remember from my youth of growing up with old military vehicles and also having over the years a large collection of Chrysler based products in NZ including Fargo trucks I can confirm that there were no real body building plants in NZ so I can believe that the C8AX bodies were gas welded rather then spot or electric welded. NZ at that time was a simple country about 30 years behind the rest of the world.

The vehicle plants of the day were really only Assembly plants, putting togeather vehicle kits and as they did not have equipment or machines capable of stamping out large all steel body parts all truck cabs, rear bodies etc. for imported chassis/cowl/windscreen models were wooden frames with simple sheetmetal panels tacked on to the frame and the tacks covered with a molding. Even cab doors were wood framed and in a lot of cases simple sliding windows fitted.

It was not until after WW2 that the assembly plants and body shops were equiped with metal stamping machines large enough to do full body panels. WW2 and it's aftermarth resulted in the modernisation of NZ industry especially in the vehicle related field.

Hope this helps
Cheers
Cliff

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
And then, of course, there is the NZ Pattern Derrick on an F30, which has the same same layout of stowage lockers, but no sides at all!

The early version of this body, at least in GS form, had hinged sides which could be dismounted. Looks like this is one of them, fitted with derrick poles and winch in NZ.

H.

[Rob Beale]

were no doubt copied off the Canadian built bodies, but simplified for local construction. The sides on the 30cwt bodies I've seen are fixed, and have the extra locker ahead of the wheel arch. The C8AX GS body side panel can be folded from a 48 inch wide sheet, which would simplify construction.

The derrick truck shown may have a rebuilt deck as the lockers look slightly different to me.

My C8AX ambulance body is lengthened at the rear by about 18 inches, and the rear lockers are the same size as the front ones. The chassis has simple extensions at the rear too. The pintle hook is fitted with the normal NZ pattern frame, so the deck overhang makes the hook unusable off road, except for pulling with a cable!!

The C8AX radio shack body is built of timber planking on a timber frame. I'll hunt up a photo or two.

Rob

[Mike K]

Here is a internal view of the C8AX wireless body , this pic is from the ZC1 radio manual . It was clad in T& G boards as far as I know . My informant in NZ says approx. only 50 were made . The ZC1 NZ built radio is visible on the table . Apparently, only the Mk 1 version saw WW2 service , ( radio, not truck ) . The ZC1 story is a good read , designed and built in NZ , a good radio , much better than the 19 set in many ways .

http://www.amateur.radio.org.nz/nzar...%20History.htm

Does anyone have any original pics of C8AX's in service ? There are just none around ? I did find one in the NZ archives on line web site taken wartime , showing two of them in the Sth Island on manouvers , but they are in the background .

Mike

[Mike K]

Here is the Green Island pic , we have all seen it before I guess , but maybe its new to somebody ?

The RNZAF Corsair has a drop tank ?

The C8AX has a MT prefix on the door , which means its a RNZAF truck .


Pic is from the AWM database .
Mike

[Ken Hughes]

hi guys are you sure that the deck is gas welded??
my 30cwt deck was arc welded that today wouldnt pass inspection, but under war conditions was acceptable
as i have discovered, and most of you would have by now
anything goes when it comes to the army and vehicles.

[Rob Beale]

is behind the dodge, note the compact body which is all timber. It has little sliding windows on sides and in the rear door.
This photo was taken in 1983 at a national rally. Behind the dodge weapons carrier is a Marmon Herrington field gun tractor, and a 3 ton Ford commercial lorry.

Rob

[Tony Smith]

Here is -427, which was recently noted as being for sale

The plate from -427:

[Tony Smith]

And -634:

And it's plate:

[Tony Smith]

-833 retains an original body on the back: