w/s no.19 fitted to M3 Stuart light tank

chamberlain9g · #1 20-12-10, 14:28

I'm looking for any information,drawings or instalation kit instructions for fitting the no. 19 wireless set to my Stuart I'm restoring.My Stuart has no turret basket and rounded back armour,thanks Tony

Philliphastings · #2 21-12-10, 12:11

Tony,

did you by any chance take any photos of mine while I had the Ws No19 fitted ? it was in the right hand sponson adjacent to the power distribution box and mounted on a carrier frame (Number 22 I think from memory) these carrier frames are supported on rubberised feet to absorb shock from cross country travel.reproductions are available from an enthusiast in Adelaide (andrew Tostevin)

There was a brass data plate near the driver in my M3 which showed the electrical layout of the 19 set in the Stuart. Someone has souvenired the one from the museum's Stuart many years previously.

I believe the way mine was fitted out was correct.

Cheers

Phill

chamberlain9g · #3 21-12-10, 14:39

G'day Phil, thanks for the reply,no I did'nt take any photo's.A TM installation manual would be good to have a list of the correct parts to fit. There is a lot on ebay at the moment but need to know that I'm buying the correct bits.Be seeing Bill and yourself in the new year.
Thanks tony

Auke · #4 21-12-10, 22:47

Tony, we fitted the WS.19 in the right side (co-driver) side sponson.
I think the US radio's were mostly fitted on the left (drivers) side sponson?
We have no drawings, we only put it close to a bracket where a WS.19 control box could be fitted.
We have the "British" modifications on the tank, like the control box brackets, "A" and "B" antenna brackets, sun compass bracket, 4" bomb thrower bracket and the pistol ports on the sides of the turret welded shut.
It is a M3A1 with the rounded rear armour and a turret basket, but we have not installed it because we don't know how to drive it then...
Cheers, Auke

chamberlain9g · #5 25-12-10, 17:07

Thanks for the reply Auke,I will try to find the brass plate that Phil mentioned hopefully that will show what is needed.
cheers Tony

drcowie · #6 26-12-10, 23:31

This is a radio shelf in a very early Australian M3 Stuart (no protector scopes on front hatches). Pic taken in Victoria, Aussie

chamberlain9g · #7 28-12-10, 14:36

Thanks Des for the reply.
Cheers Tony

colin jones · #8 28-12-10, 22:49

Hi Tony, good to here you moving along with your stuart. How about some pictures and hows your valentine going.
Colin.

carl brown · #9 29-12-10, 22:38

Hi guys. I have been following the thread with interest and wanted to input what i thought. I have Phill's old M3 here in the UK ( hope you are well Phill ?) and am slowly restoring it. Its been on hold for a while due to work commitments but will come together slowly over the next year or two.

Whilst I havn't found the brass 19 set installation plate that phill refers to, I have attached a copy of an M3 stowage diagram extracted from Hunnicutts Stuart book. This really backs up the picture that Des has provided showing that the 19 set was mounted on a tray at the back of the hull. This definitely makes sense if the hull has the fixed 30 cals in the sponsons however the stowage diagram shows it as not having the fixed 30 cals!

It is possible that the wireless was relocated to the sponson on later M3 vehicles, but you have to ask the question why they would loose most of the 30 cal ammo stowage just to relocate the wireless ? If it was relocated, where did the 30 cal ammo get stowed ? In Phills old M3 there are two brackets on the firewall bulkhead just about where the 19 set would be on the tray in Des's picture, and these take what appears to be a 37mm stowage box/ready round box. Was the radio relocated to the sponson to allow for more 37mm stowage ? I don't know the answer either.

I have attached a picture of a friends M3 in Oz showing how he has installed the radio in his M3. Could this be the layout we all think it should be for a later M3 ?

drcowie · #10 29-12-10, 23:05

Tony, have you got a copy of TM11-2713 ? On page 20 it shows the No19 set sitting on some frame above the US base (for earlier set) - see attachment. I have no more info than this.
For interest, the US setup in the driver's side sponson is on a FT-237 mount as per my pics.
Hi Carl - (all parts installed)

chamberlain9g · #11 31-12-10, 22:19

G'day Colin,Carl and Des
Thanks for the replies and Infomation,when I get some help and camera organised I will post some photos of the Stuart.The Valentine is waiting in the long line of projects.
Cheers Tony

Philliphastings · #12 13-01-11, 04:06

Carl - I am pretty sure that plate was still attached to the inside of my Stuart, if not then loose with the spares ?

Also there was at least one very badly rusted example of that radio table as fitted to the early M3 with the spares, although I admit I was not certain exactly what it was for at the time.

The Museum Stuart still has the radio plate inside the hull, though some B%$#@&d had ripped the data plate out and stolen it many years ago.

I could try to photograph the plate some time but it's dark in there - and there are spiders...

Cheers

Phill

Philliphastings · #13 13-01-11, 04:10

Carl your stowage diagram would have been a godsend when I was fitting out the Stuart for display. I now realise that some of the small bins I have picked up over the years (and still have) are for the water and oil bottles etc in the Stuart.

Cheers

Phill

carl brown · #14 13-01-11, 10:29

Phill

I'll go through the parts again to see what I can see. I did sort most of it out and its all racked up on shelves. A picture of the radio table in the Museum Stuart would be really good if possible.
There are a few bits soon to leave Bills place to come here, including the remaining few track blocks. Any chance the oil and water bottle stowage bins could come as well ?

Philliphastings · #15 17-01-11, 03:49

Carl - there is no radio shelf in the museum Stuart, it's the radio schematic data plate I was referring to.

The small bins were in the boxes of spares with the tank. The ones I have left are damaged and will go into the museum Stuart.

Cheers

Phill

oztankboy · #16 14-02-11, 07:39

Here is the basic lay out with what you require for the W/S 19 when fitted in the right hand sponson.

Phil...

Mrs Vampire · #17 16-10-13, 06:12

Hi
My two bobs worth.

The first batch of M3 Stuarts ( the refugee cargo Dutch ones used in Buna etc) were modified to look like the drawing (above) TD 262 according to the Australian archives. ( my copy of that drawing came from the file specifying the fit out ) .

The photos from Buna show the sponson Guns removed and the holes welded up with a substantial amount of steel. The diagram above shows ammo and oil amongst other things were put where the guns used to be.

Later hybrid Stuarts almost certainly had the sponson guns removed . some has the semi circular ammo bins as in the M3A1 but with checker plate lids so you could stand on them. I have seen one shot with a seat mounted on the side of the basket-less turret and have seen in the flesh Australian Stuarts with the welded fitting to take that. I for many years thought the bracket was a fitting so either powered or hand traversing gear could be fitted..I could never make sense of it until I saw the seat fitted to the Stuart in the Dutch museum. ( Those were Hybrid M3s. )

I am not sure if we ever used M3 or M3 hybrids with sponson guns though I have seen one resto job with them in place in Australia I have never seen a period photo with them in Australian service.

Des can you say which Stuart you photo was taken from???

Mrs Vampire · #18 16-10-13, 06:31

Carls photo appears to be of Bill O'reilleys Stuart.

I am not confident that is an accurate set up. The rear of the hull appears to have the places for the W/T shelf. I also note the Turret in this tank has the fittings on the turret for a basket....I suspect that some "recreation" has been exercised .

My own Stuart had the #19 fitted in the stbd sponson ...the shock mounts still being in place when I first got the hull way back in 1970 .

Pictured Bill's Installation and turret detail and my own radio installation in an M3A1 .

Mrs Vampire · #19 16-10-13, 06:39

Des' Photo seems to be one of the Brazilian Stuarts.

Note the replacement honeycomb style radiator and Coffman Starter breech indicating a Guiberson installation.

Again I am unsure how reliable this set up is. The ammo bins and other fittings and the many other photos such as those of the Bovington Brazilian Stuart, the shots taken when they were imported and shots of Stuarts taken out of Brazil prior to Mike Stalwarts export effort, indicate they were originally very much like the drawing .
That said the Brazilians kept the Stuarts for a long time and embarked on a massive modification program that lasted from when they first relieved them till they sold them off.

For my money until some period photos show up I am sticking to the original Australian M3 looking like the drawing and our Hybrids looking a lot like the Dutch Museum Stuart.

Any interior shots of Stuarts would be gratefully received.

drcowie · #20 19-10-13, 12:14

Gina

The pics I included were from my M3 Guiberson powered tank USA W-303598 (now sold) - not ex Brazil, but restored by me with original bins, early radiators & US radio/mount setup & intercoms (all working)

Mrs Vampire · #21 20-10-13, 13:11

many Thanks for clarification Des.

Haven't seen Honeycomb radiators as original fit before. Do you have any more photos of that installation ...where is the tank now??? From whence did it come???

Gina

Mrs Vampire · #22 20-10-13, 13:12

would also be interested to know more about the victorian stuart with the M3 radio shelf.

Mrs Vampire · #23 09-11-13, 06:30

Talking about the insides of M3s I have this interior shot of Sgt Lattimore's Stuart 2017.

There is a filter of some sort right up against the main battery switch box.

From other info that switch was a knife switch that was supposed to be turned on and off.

never seen such a filter/whatever fitted before and have no idea what its for.

The engine compartment shot doesn't quite show if it lines up with a hole in the wall of the fighting compartment. The filter look original 1942 .

anyone have any clues??

Mrs Vampire · #24 09-11-13, 07:27

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the penny dropped its the aerial tuner sans the dial etc etc...
The diagram in the archive doesn't show the rear of the fighting compartment up that high....that's where they stuck the aerial tuner right next to the hole in the firewall where the aerial cable exits.