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National Military History Center to auction WWII vehicles
E-mail that I received this morning;
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Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed. - M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 26-10-12 at 16:16. Reason: formatting, please use the QUOTE button |
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I was looking at the auction pieces last night, and after reviewing the few Canadian pieces, I would hope that anyone thinking of bidding will invest in a plane ticket, as opposed to bidding online. There seem to be a few anomalies on some of the vehicles. Even so, it is still one of the more impressive collections that has been offered for sale on this side of the pond in a while.
This mk1 carrier seems to be missing more than a few rivets, and also seems to have acquired some mk2 traits. |
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Here's the link to the catalogue: http://auctionsamerica.com/events/al...?SaleCode=MM12 H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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For potential buyers; some of the vehicle rebuilds were described in old issus of the French MV magazine, Ve-Mil, or Vehicules militaires. Commonwealth wise, there are some interesting vehicles for sale, like the Morris PU 8x4, Windsor carrier, Loyd carrier, Standard Tilly........anyone spot the F60B anywhere in the auction (it was far from complete if I rememer correctly)?
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle Last edited by Alex van de Wetering; 28-10-12 at 11:56. |
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Other vehicles were acquired as wrecks and restored or used for reconstructions - note the Maultier truck with British Universal Carrier tracks, and compare it with a real Maultier with German tracks (yes, the Maultier tracks system was patterned on the British Light Tank system, but not copied). Quote:
H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Reply from the auctioneers to a question of a fellow HMV club member:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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I had a very brief look at the C60 offered..and noticed even just quickly several details that are incorrect, steering wheel, petrol carrier, no tool box, mirrors (ford) door knob, rear splash guards...
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I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot! |
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H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Lots are still offered at no reserve, but each lot is now listed with an estimate (possibly to manage expectations?).
H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Those estimates, I believe, are extremely optimistic. I would be impressed if they saw half that.
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I think I said it before here on the Forum and got chastized for it but I will say it again.
Too many people believe that Museum quality is the be-all end-all when it comes to examples of correctly restored MVs, when in fact, in all too many cases, nothing could be further from the truth. Buyer beware indeed.
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
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I would guess you are correct in this case Chris, and indeed perhaps when it comes to "museum" military vehicles, probably in most cases.
Attention to detail is probably not a high priority, more simply a case of a "representation" of the vehicle in most cases..to give an unknowing public a general idea or impression, which may in fact be a very reasonable option, if the choice is between having a "representation" on display rather than having an item in the back room out of sight for years while waiting for an accurate restoration. Other than jeeps (popular) we all know the difficulties of sourcing parts, most of which have been out of production for decades or longer. I dont think most museums have the time or money to "restore" the vehicles. I find it interesting, the estimated value of the C60- especially one not seemingly very accurate. If I had rec'd anywhere near that amount for my C60 which was complete, accurate (albeit with the more useful 235 engine) and a rare winch equipped model, i would have been very very happy. I wish them luck, and perhaps some of these vehicles will end up in the hands of people who will do them justice, but as others have suggested I-( not having deep pockets at all) would not bid until a very thorough personal onsite inspection, and it also sounds just a teeny bit off, in that they seem to prefer you to leave the vehicles there. I hope we'll hear the results of the auction.
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I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot! |
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Mil Vehs at Auction
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I moved your post to this related thread. Hanno
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Hi Hanno
Thanks for that. I hadn't seen Clive's earlier post. Hmmm.................we've this Severance Package $$ available............ regards Darrell |
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Id love to get my hands on that 12 ton prime mover...that trailer would come in handy
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Stab it and steer... |
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Better make sure you are sitting down before opening this link: http://www.auctionsamerica.com/event...ouping=&page=1
Ebay has nothing over these guys. |
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The Sale
I had a look at the vehicle prices and they seem about right and some appear to be a good buy, the Morris for instance.
The artillery prices (in my opinion) were spot on. The 88 was cheap (all depending what bits are there/missing). German stuff is always going to attract a higher price as this is now the realm of the rich collector or "I sold off my 3 American Tanks to buy a German one". If that half trac quad was even 80% there it was a steal. Buying "Museum Restorations" has to be done with care and a careful inspection of the work carried out before hand. A good curator with an even better budget can do great things but a good curator with no budget does what he/she can. I started restoring military stuff 30 years ago because there was plenty of stuff around and it was cheap. Not anymore but I"m not buying a train set just yet. Wayne Henderson Perth Western Australia |
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Each one of us can make his/her remarks about a certain lot being sold for a steal or at a ridiculous price, I am only listing some of the Commonwealth prices here for future reference:
Lot: 102 1940 Ariel W/NG Motorcycle Sold for $ 6,200 Lot: 108 1940 Norton 16H Motorcycle Sold for $ 8,000 Lot: 122 1941 Chevrolet C15 CMP Personnel Carrier Sold for $ 25,000 Lot: 126 1944 Standard 12 HP Light Utility Car Sold for $ 17,000 Lot: 139 1940 Loyd Full-Track Carrier Sold for $ 25,000 Lot: 152 1940 Morris Commercial PU 8/4 4x4 Wireless Truck Sold for $ 12,000 Lot: 154 1944 Windsor Mark I Full-Track Universal Carrier C49WC Sold for $ 30,000 Lot: 161 1942 Ford Universal Mk I, No. 3 Full-Track Carrier Sold for $ 29,000 Lot: 167 1940 Humber Hexonaut GS 6x6 Amphibious Prototype Sold for $ 47,500 Lot: 175 1943 Chevrolet C60L CMP 4x4 General Service Truck Sold for $ 16,000 Lot: 178 1941 Humber FWD Utility Car Sold for $ 33,000 Lot: 182 1942 Velocette MAF Motorcycle Sold for $ 7,500 There was somethinig to be had for each and every one's liking..... H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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I guess I will stir some S***t but to my way of thinking the prices were on average, pretty damned good
There was some excellent deals and some bad ones but it sure gives a pretty good indication as to what the world market is. There was bidders from around the world and they paid what they were willing to Also the prices at the sale you can add at least another 22% plus shipping cost NOW CALCULATE THE PRICE OF THE VEHICLES then take them home and restore them to running condition ( another 40 to 50 % ) unless they go into another museum. the people have spoken and now it is a new game "thought for the day" Don,t you wish 35 years ago we had saved more? : |
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After the famous Australian Museum sale in 2006, I restored the M3A1 White Scout Car. The final figure was almost 150% times the purchase price which was also quite high. There was not one part which had missed out on the ravages of time. For example the transfer case was full of water and was almost 1 solid piece. The only item saved was the casing. 1/2 inch nuts and bolts on the chassis had rotted through, etc. etc. Still it is now on the road, loved by it's owner and used often. Which is far better than sitting in a museum. regards Rick.
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1916 Albion A10 1942 White Scoutcar 1940 Chev Staff Car 1940 F30S Cab11 1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai" 1941 F60L Cab12 1943 Ford Lynx 1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250 Humber FV1601A Saracen Mk1(?) 25pdr. 1940 Weir No.266 25pdr. Australian Short No.185 (?) KVE Member. |
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While we are on the theme, I have often examined the cost of doing a restoration vs buying a restored vehicle.
I suppose it come down to where one's interest and ability lay. My personal enjoyment comes from fixing them up, although it is very easy to go over budget if not careful with the initial purchase. Of course, nowadays finding an example to restore in decent shape and at a good price is a challenge. I suppose the reason a lot of fellows start off with a "project" is that it is affordable; saying this I mean that it is a lot easier to justify or even explain your way out of a purchase for a few hundred or even a couple thousands for your project and then pick away over time (years) to get it done vs dumping tens of thousands on a restored vehicle just to drive. I have never bought a restored vehicle but if I was going to I would expect it to be to high standards. I have bought items that were said to be "restored" that were in fact amateur restorations or more aptly "preservations". Often times I think that guys can find a good deal by looking at someone elses project that has lost interest, time, storage space etc. This is where the deals are to be had. In these situations I have found that along with the vehicle usually comes a lot of parts and extras which sometimes are worth more than the asking price alone. I can understand now why some guys have multiple parts vehicles, a result of many package deals. In some cases, package deals turn out really well, like a treasure hunt you never know what you may find. I purchased a project several years back that came with a bunch of parts. As it turned out, most of the parts had nothing to do with that particular vehicle but in "fire sale" fashion, liquidation of these to my friends and associates paid for my purchase vehicle. I was at break even. Nice. My advice to anyone starting out is to always understand what you are getting into to the best of your ability, ask lots of questions, look for guidance and buy a project in the best condition you can afford. In the long run you will be happier and less broke.
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
#24
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Also: Quote:
H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Some more news about the buyer of a good number of the British vehicles: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/au...anted=all&_r=0
Thanks to Ron for the heads-up! H. Quote:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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The C60L is back on the market:
http://www.milweb.net/webverts/66711/ "1941" ?!? "Just needs a few things to take it back to factory configuration" ?!? H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Marc,
Having restored an F8 I've got some interest in the C60 currently listed on eBay. I'm perhaps a glutton for punishment but would like your thoughts on the major things needed to be done to "fix" this truck up right. Would appreciate very much your thoughts! Best regards, Jim Price PS I can tell you with NO doubts whatsoever that I'll never get repaid every dollar I spent on the resto of my F8. The 1st Place trophy for Military Vehicles at a recent Wheels of Britain show here in Phoenix will be the best I'll ever get! |
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Right off I see the marker lights on the front fenders are incorrect, the side windows are incorrect and the rear cargo body is incorrect.
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3RD Echelon Wksp 1968 M274A5 Mule Baifield USMC 1966 M274A2 Mule BMY USMC 1958 M274 Mule Willys US Army 1970 M38A1 CDN3 70-08715 1 CSR 1981 MANAC 3/4T CDN trailer 1943 Converto Airborne Trailer 1983 M1009 CUCV RT-524, PRC-77s, and trucks and stuff and more stuff and and....... OMVA, MVPA, G503, Steel Soldiers |
#29
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A well travelled Tilly!
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Recently I found the Victory Museum catalogue from my visit to the museum in Arlon, Belgium in the early 1990s: Also a picture of when it was on display in the Kruse WW2 Victory Museum - Auburn, IN in 2007: https://www.vgbimages.com/AFV-Photos...ictory-Museum/: When it was auctioned in 2012: https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/m...p-light/734468. It was bought by Richard D. Waistell and bought back to Berkshire, England: It came back on the market in 2020 and was then sold to a Dutch collector. As it stands today undergoing maintenance at Martin IJdo's Historic Engineering:
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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