Carrier kid

[Simon Delaney]

Hi
My name's Simon Delaney. I've been restoring two carriers for a while now. A mk1and a mk2
I should have joined years ago so finally got round to it. I know several of you boys on here and I'm sure I'll meet a few more which I looking forward to.

[Michael R.]

Greetings Simon!

[Paul Dutton]

Hi Simon, welcome to the carrier world. Where are you u k located??

[Ron Pier]

Ah Simon! We meet again. Ron

[tankbarrell]

Hi Simon, didn't realise you weren't a member! Rick occasionally pops in.

[Tim Bell]

Simon

Welcome... though as Adrian has mentioned already, surprised you haven't been a member before now.

Good place to talk about the Canadian WS9 set too! Got any pics of yours yet?

Tim

[eddy8men]

hi simon
welcome and i look forward to seeing some pics

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Simon, welcome from down around the corner.
In the interests of teaching you the correct terminology,
I have to do this so please don't take it badly.

Firstly, I assume you are talking about Universal carriers?
Secondly are they U.C. MkI or U.C. MkI* and MkII or MkII*?

If you are a young guy as "Carrier Kid" suggests, then it is great to have you young guys coming through, in the hobby. We need you to teach the next generation.

[RichardT10829]

Welcome to the forum.

Who do you know ? Maybe we know them too ?

[Ron Pier]

There's this. https://www.facebook.com/britainsspirit

Ron

[Simon Delaney]

Hi Ron, nearly finished my 3HW.
Tim I haven't actually unpacked the WS9 yet
Adrian yeah should have done this when i got the first carrier yonks ago.
thanks for everyone's welcomes.
I can post some pix but they look pretty much like other carriers under resto
I've just sorted some parts to sell, so I'll post them shortly

[carrierbarry]

Welcome Simon

All the best to you and all my other carrier friends for 2017

Barry

[eddy8men]

same to you too barry

[Simon Delaney]

Today I've been mostly fabbing rear stowage brackets etc

[Michael R.]

Simon, the part I have highlighted for the pick helve (when the Stacey towing attachment is not employed): can you please share a part number for that style? If it is a factory produced item, I wonder if it is British made? The retaining strap and base that mounts about the middle section is not pictured, the third bolt hole to retain it is not in place on the primer coloured vertical differential cover plate.

There are pictures in Nigel Watson 'Universal Carriers, Vol II' of the replacement parts used for the pick helve when the carrier is fitted with the Stacey towing attachment. (TL 1029, IIRC).

The shovel handle bracket in your picture using a single attaching bolt is atypical of what I am familiar with on the MK-I* and MK-II* carrier tool stowage. The first edition of the Chilwell illustrated parts manual shows the MK-I tool brackets, see attached.

Your radiator driver side blanking plate is outstanding.

[Jim Burrill]

I need everything that is bolted to that plate on a Mk1. brackets for the shovel, the pick head mount, the shovel clamp... all of it...What would that cost me to get from you?

All the best,
Jim near Philadelphia, PA USA.

[RichardT10829]

Nice work Simon. Did you fabricate the steps and shovel handle bracket from Patterns ? I only ask as you may need to add a plate onto the bottom of the "gunners side" step to stop the pry bar coming out. Also (and I stand to be corrected) you may need to trim the shovel handle bracket as the sides look too long.

looking great though

I like the Mk2 engine deck rifle rest !

keep it up.

Richie

[Simon Delaney]

Hi Richie. The photo just shows some bits not all. Yes I've made the crow bar holder on drivers side. Its just not in the photo. All parts made from original examples. Several original shovel holders I studied are that length and photos show it to be correct.Theres a good shot I have showing the King inspecting a troop and you can see it clearly Earlier Scout versions look shorter though. The rifle rests have been popular! The steps are formed in a hefty press to make the exact curve.

[Lynn Eades]

I'm with Richard. I do stand to be corrected, but never seen the adjustable shovel bracket in any different height.

He is also talking about the "dropped" side of the left step, as far as the crow bar goes.

Scout, Bren and Mk I U.C. are the same with regards the adj. shovel bkt. IMHO.

Michael R., is there a difference between a MkI* and a MkII*?
Does the Stacey tow hitch require a change in the shovel bkt.

As far as I know the Brit. MkIIIw has the same set up as a MkI* U.C.

[kosbie]

I would beg to differ about the shovel handle holder. I think there is a reason for the larger variant. If you look very carefully at the 3rd and 4th photo down on page 25 of Nigel Watson's Volume 2 on universal carriers I think you will see it is carrying two shovels in this position, hence the larger piece for the spade handle. Similarly the photo on page 72 of Volume 1 appears to show the bigger version. I am also pretty sure the one on Shaun Hindle's carrier 'puddle jumper' is the larger version - perhaps Shaun could confirm if this so and it is an original one? Or I will have another look the next time I am over at the airfield. I also have a feeling the carrier at IWM Duxford has the bigger version. Happy to be corrected but I wouldn't write the bigger one off just because we have all seen more of the shorter ones.
cheers
Rick

[Simon Delaney]

Sorry ritchie apologies misread your post. The two steps are both the drivers side which I chucked on there in a hurry. I can't see the point of the longer shovel head bracket for sure but sean's has one as Rick says and that mk1 in the musem in S Africa has one too. Weird. I can make either which is the good news!

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Rick, Quote: "The greatest cause of non-observation, is preconceived opinion" Of this, I am guilty.
That photo on page 72 is exactly what my other carrier is, so maybe I should have one of these deeper brackets?
I have not yet found reference to a corresponding strap to hold in two shovels.

I do have in hand an original photo (stamped on the back "Royal Canadian Air Force Official photo) of the one you mentioned (in Nigel's book)(Is this a Windsor carrier?)and it shows clearly, two shovels, a long strap, and a deep adjustable right side bracket.
This is in conjunction with the Stacey towing attachment and the pick head mounted under the crow bar
I have looked at photo copies from Bovington's Chilwell 63/76 and there is nothing obvious there?
I have a stowage diagram for a "Carrier Universal No2 MarkII* and it states Shovel G.S. MkII (Qty) 1.
(BTW. The locker with the crews packs at the rear is deeper than the one on the track guard of a U.C.MkI*)

Thanks for the "heads up" guys.

Here are a couple of observations of mine;
1.The pick head often does not fully fit on the cast mounting bracket so that some file work is required to be able to get the retaining plate and wing nut on.
2. That the reason why you nearly never see carrier photos (in service) with the full compliment of tools fitted is because the brackets and straps were almost impossible to do up / undo.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Simon Delaney

paraphrased. . . I can't see the point of the longer shovel head bracket for sure but sean's has one as Rick says and that mk1 in the musem in S Africa has one too. Weird. I can make either which is the good news!

"I can make either which is the good news!"
Exactly. Good attitude. Pictures can be deceiving though. The shovel handle bracket on the 1943 C01UC MK-I* in the Ditsong Museum, J'Burg, SA is a standard handle depth. Perhaps someone has a copy of a DME circular showing the change?

A few of the factory images from Ford, Canada appear to show the "two-shovel" modification. Have they added a second retaining strap for the second shovel? Note this is for the seldom seen "tool plate mounted" towing bracket, with the pickaxe head relocated to the bottom of the tool plate.

Photo credits:
S Tegner, S.A. ,
Ford Canada Archives through "The Factory Photos", Clive Law, Service Publications.

[Lynn Eades]

Simon, Can you tell us please, the full depth (front to back) of the deeper bracket assy?
Thanks for the pictures, Michael R.

[Simon Delaney]

4". Enough for two shovels......

[RichardT10829]

So is the shovel blade holder any different ? Just thinking if it has to fit two blades over one ?

[Lynn Eades]

I'm guessing, no, Richard.
Thanks Simon.

[Simon Delaney]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

So is the shovel blade holder any different ? Just thinking if it has to fit two blades over one ?

I'm assuming not as I've only ever seen one size of cut out. However ill get two GS shovels and try it out.....