Ok..what Is It?

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Duuane
Seeing all my Aussie mates are assisting you, I'll help as well. Here is an instant restoration of your dash, this is my forte.
Hope the image works.
Salesman Bob

[Tony Smith]

The image works, but not as hard as Bob does on some of his Ford instrument restorations

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by DUUANE

so whats the popular opinion of the flathead ford for this application?is it worth the dollars to find and build one?
i have three 3-53 detroits to choose from here that would almost snap in there like it was home. last darn near forever too.
yes i know the're loud as n/a's but with a turbo and a decent muffler it's almost music to me.
i'm sorry if that horrifies some of you,but my intention is to USE this truck,and i dont like being left high and dry.
95 hp sounds a little rough for hauling a load too.
rear end gears are 7.2:1 right?
thanks to all...

I guess there's nothing too wrong with the original V8 (the various Commonwealth armies were so impressed, they bought hundreds of thousands of Fords and some Chevs), but they can be expensive to source parts for and rebuild. If originality is not vital to you, an option to get you on the road with some speed and reliability is a small block Chev V8 (Gasp!!). One reason in favour of this is that adapters are readily available (like this one on e-bay) and if in some time you want to go back to a flathead, you haven't permanently disfigured the chassis. Crate GM motors are available for the price of parts alone for the flathead, and if Diesel appeals to you a 5.7 Olds and 6.2 and 6.5 GM V8 diesels can be fitted up (different bolt patterns for the Oldsmobile and Chev, but adapters are available in both). Using a GM V8 adapted to your Ford CMP gearbox means that fiddly things like clutch linkages and driveshaft lengths don't need to be changed. Of course, this still retains the non-synchro gearbox, which can be a learning curve if your not used to one.
I don't know about your road laws, but a conversion like this might mean you will have to have the vehicle certified by an engineer for approval and you might miss out on any emissions testing or licensing fee benefits that apply for original vintage trucks. Check first before starting the rebuild.

[Corey Myronuk]

YES IT APPEARS TO BE VERY DIFFERENT.WHAT DO YOU ALL MAKE OF IT?
CANADA IS STILL ONE OF THE GREATEST PLACES TO BUILD A HOT ROD.NO NEED FOR ENGINEERS,OR HASSLE WITH REGISTRATION.
PLUS ALL VEHICLES OVER 5500KG GVW ARE EMISSIONS EXEMPT.
I'VE GOT TO GO GET A BITE TO EAT HERE BUT WHEN I GET BACK I'LL CRAWL UNDER AND CHECK FOR THE T-CASE CASTING MARKS.
THOSE GUAGE RESTO'S LOOK GREAT TOO.I'LL BE INTERESTED IN SENDING YOU MY SET TO REWORK IF IT'S OK WITH YOU.
AS FAR AS ENGINE CHOICE,I'M GOING TO HAVE TO THINK HARD I GUESS.I ADMIT THE FLATHEAD IS TEMPTING..BUT I'VE ALREADY GOT A 265 FLAT 6 IN MY M37.I REALISE THE V8 IT A LITTLE DIFFERENT,I'M JUST WORRIED ABOUT BREAKDOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE.
A FRIEND OFFERED ME A '70 429 FORD ENGINE THAT I COULD FIT WITH NO ALTERATION.THE ONLY DRAWBACK WOULD BE THE HORRIBLE MILEAGE.THATS WHY I WAS CONSIDERING THE DETROIT.
WHATEVER GOES IN THERE I'LL KEEP THE STOCK TRANS.
I DRIVE HEAVY TRUCKS FOR A LIVING AND I ACTUALLY PREFER AN UNSYNCHRONISED SHIFT.(MY ANTI-THEFT DEVICE)
BACK IN A BIT
CHEERS

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Duuane
There is nothing sweeter sounding than a flathead. The one below is going into our 1944 Ford Blitz Ambulance. I obtained it out of an ex. fire truck. Refurbished the carby and dizzy, put it on the test bed and fired it up. 85-90psi on all pots, 55psi oil pressure and when idling at 200rpm still had 30psi. No modern engine will idle that low. And the sound was orgasmic. Vrooommm Vrooommm. And instruments - no problem.
Bob

[Corey Myronuk]

OK I GOT UNDER THE BEST I COULD AS IT'S BEEN POURING RAIN HERE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS.I COULDNT SEE ANY CASTING MARKS AT ALL,FORD OR GM.
WHERE ARE THE MARKS YOU'VE SEEN?ON TOP?
GET ME IN THE BALLPARK AT LEAST...
THANKS

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Hi! Photos of GM transfer cases show that the marks were visible from the rear on the rear face of the casing, viewd from the back.

[Bob Carriere]

Do you guys get rain out there much?????


I thought you would be used to that rain by now and all you BCers would use a scuba diver's camera.......

....hihihihi

[Corey Myronuk]

THERE'S A CANADIAN METAPHOR FOR YA.
ACTUALLY "DUUUANE" IS A SHOP JOKE THAT I'M THE BUTT OF.
I SPEND 12 HOURS A DAY 10 MONTHS A YEAR COVERED IN CONCRETE SPATTER AND DIESEL SOOT.ON A GOOD DAY I GET 6 HOURS OF QUALITY TIME IN THE SHOP,COVERED IN 40 YEARS OF ROAD GRIME AND LEAKY REAR MAIN SEAL. OUT COLD FOR 4 HOURS AND I'M GOOD TO GO ANOTHER ROUND.OH,AND 2 HOURS FOR SSS&F.
THIS YEAR I FINNALY STARTED BUYING USED COVERALLS FOR AROUND THE SHOP HERE,AND AS IT HAPPENS THE FIRST NAME TAGS SAID DUANE.
WELL,I GUESS MY CHUCKLEHEAD FRIENDS(I LOVE THEM SO...)
THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY FUNNY.
"ALL YOU NEED NOW IS THE MULLET.."
AND THE LIKE.
SO "DUUANE" HAS SORT OF STUCK WITH ME AND HAS BECOME MY EVIL TWIN OF SORTS.(IT WASN'T ME...IT WAS JACK DANIELS..ERR UHH DUUANE,YEAH ...IT WAS DUUANE.)
80%REDNECK,20%SAVANT.
AND SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT IN CHARGE OF
ACCOUNTS RECIEVABLE.
BUT I AM THE WET COAST KID..AND LIKE THE MOOSE AND BEAVER
I PREFER IT WET.
8-]
NOW I'M GOING TO GO LIE IN A PUDDLE AND LOOK FOR CASTING MARKS.
CHEERS

[Corey Myronuk]

OK...I CANT SEE ANY MARKS AT ALL.
HERE'S SOME MORE PICS.
THE PREVIOUS OWNER SWEARS IT'S A '40 OR '41 MODEL.
HE ALSO SAID THAT HE KNOWS WHERE ANOTHER ONE IS CLOSE TO HIM THAT I CAN GET FOR THE SAME DEAL.

[Corey Myronuk]

HERE'S ANOTHER SHOT

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

I've enhanced the three t-case images. See if this helps.
Bob

[Tony Smith]

I can see another odd difference. The PTO cover with the breather is a different shape. Could this be a Chev cap on a Ford case? (Only Ford two speed cases have the bolt on bracket for the shifter tower). The oil filler plugs are at different locations, resulting in different volumes of oil. Perhaps this is an Early/Late production difference?
Example below:

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Hi! Photos of GM transfer cases show that the marks were visible from the rear on the rear face of the casing, viewd from the back.

This Chev two speed PTO-equipped case has the number cast on the front, not particularly legible 181xxxx

[Corey Myronuk]

A FRONT SHOT.WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THE HEADLIGHT PLACEMENT?
REGARDS

[Corey Myronuk]

OK I GOT OUT THE WIRE BRUSH AND SANDPAPER AND MANAGED TO FIND THE T-CASE #'S.
C 1101880 2 B-X IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME.
MAYBE BOB MOSLEY CAN WORK SOME MORE OF HIS MAGIC WITH THIS PHOTO.
THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE...

[Tony Smith]

Standard Ford two-speed transfer case number (1st series).

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Tony, would that be a 'C11Q-' prefixed number? It appears as though whilst the Ford case is broadly similar to the GM McKinnon one, and may have included as with the GM design, Timken bearings, they differed externally. I suggest at this stage that whilst McKinnons supplied Ford in the early days, Ford's axle plant in Windsor produced their own version to the overall design. Are the Ford and GM cases interchangeable in any way?

[Tony Smith]

The number C11Q-19802 B is for the case casting, not the whole T/C assembly. There was a later casting with the part number C29Q-19802 S which featured a larger oil sump, similar to the Chev case I've pictured above.
The complete Ford and Chev cases, either in the case of 15cwt single speed transfer cases or the two-speed cases, will physically swap between Ford and Chev. All mounting points, controls and driveshafts are in the same locations. There are some complications in putting a Chev 2-speed Case into a Ford as the Ford 2-speed case has it's shifter mounted on a bracket bolted to the side of the case. The Chev 2-speed has it's shifter on a bracket on a chassis crossmember. Internally, the gears, shafts, bearings, shims and gaskets SEEM to be interchangable as the parts books list both Ford and Chev numbers for the same parts, however I have never dissambled a case and reassembled it with parts from another case, so I can't say for sure.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

This is an official shot of a case off a C15A, # 11 or 12 Cab. It would appear that the C15A case has a similar casting to the Ford's, although the 2-speed GM McKinnon one has significant differences.

[Tony Smith]

Here is the rear view of the Chev 2-speed. While the cover on the C15A 11/12 cab has more ribs, the main case appears very similar. In fact the Ford case, like DUUANE's, is quite different in appearance with the built up section on the side for the shift bracket being the quickest to ID a Ford case.

[Tony Smith]

Pictured is a pic of Max Hedge's 1941 Chev Cab 11 C30 Transfer Case. This is the earliest Chev CMP that I have seen and , by David's suggestion, is probably fitted with a GM/McKinnon transfer (although with 65 years of crud on it, it's hard to find any casting marks until Max cleans it up). This Cab 11, like all other Chevs I have seen, has the two-speed shifter tower mounted to a bracket that bolts to the crossmember. What is unusual, it has the case mounts for the Ford-style shifter that mounts onto the case, BUT IS NOT DRILLED AND TAPPED FOR THIS BRACKET! It would seem that the cases were manufactured to be used by either manufacturer, and this one happened to go to Chevrolet. At some later stage, Chev cases dropped the inclusion of this bracket mount.
A less startling observation is the presence of two fill plugs on this case as well, a high one above the centre bearing cap, and a mid-height one to the left of the bearing cap. This could possibly be in David's Black and White pic, but shadow makes it hard to see the top plug. We have seen varing positions of fill plugs on different cases, but why have two different levels or volumes of oil for one case?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I wonder if McKinnons produced the castings for the cases, as they had a foundry, and McKinnon and Fords then added in their own gears etc.?

[Greg Beeston]

on Duuane's photo dated 3 feb there is a tube? coming from the centre bearing cap. can some one tell me what it is
thanks greg

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Greg Beeston
on Duuane's photo dated 3 feb there is a tube? coming from the centre bearing cap. can some one tell me what it is
thanks greg

Speedo drive.

The 4X2 models had the drive coming off the gearbox, but all 4X4 and up had it on the tranny case. There's a small helical gear on the idler shaft to drive it.

[Tony Smith]

Having digested and understood all this info on Transfer Cases, we now know how to ID the various types, right? In that case, this one should prove a cinch to recognise! Well, no, not really! It really breaks all the rules. But have a go anyway, the answer will have you stumped:

[cliff]

wouldn't happen to be a GMC-CCKW transfer case in a C60X would it?

[Phil Waterman]

It looks like for some reason the transfer case and frame member have been reversed. Tried reversing the photo to see if it had been just been flipped but several things look wrong.

Was this a conversion to fork lift or other rear steering application?

[Keith Webb]

That's a Ford gearbox on the top left... and you've just been to NZ... could it be in a Ford Indian Pattern armoured car?
The drive from the gearbox is going into the power take-off shaft, but the handbrake is in the normal place - the angle of the driveshafts suggests a short wheelbase chassis - it looks to be rear-engined by the layout mentioned... I didn't know those armoured cars had a two speed transfer case though - I can't see the arm for the shifter tower - has it been a replacement?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Having digested and understood all this info on Transfer Cases, we now know how to ID the various types, right? In that case, this one should prove a cinch to recognise! Well, no, not really! It really breaks all the rules. But have a go anyway, the answer will have you stumped:

Tony,

My guess is that this vehicle has had the engine moved to the rear and driving into the rear of the transfer box and is perhaps a CMP converted into a mobile crane?

Richard