Balkans Campaign: CMPs in Greece?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Who knows more about the vehicles used by the:
- headquarters of I Australian Corps with corps troops,
- 6th Australian Division

From 'A Great Risk in a good cause' I learned the Australians used CMPs as well.

Photo caption: "Transport vehicles passing through the village of Perdik during the withdrawal from Vevi, 13 April 1941."

Looks like an 11 Cab 15-cwt with 2B1 body. But Ford or Chev?

Thanks,
Hanno

Addition: later I found this pic at the AWM as well: "ID Number: 007649; Summary: GREECE, 1941-04-13. TRANSPORT PASSING THROUGH THE VILLAGE OF PERDIKA DURING THE WITHDRAWAL FROM THE MONASTIER GAP. NOTE: IN SPITE OF THE INSISTENCE DURING TRAINING TO THE DISPERSAL OF VEHICLES DURING CONVOY, LITTLE ATTENTION WAS PAID TO THIS IMPORTANT FACTOR ALTHOUGH, DURING THIS PERIOD, THE GERMAN AIR FORCE WAS PARTICULARLY ACTIVE ALONG THE ROADS."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

From 'A Great Risk in a good cause' I learned the Australians used CMPs as well.

The AWM yielded a couple more pictures.

First one has a 15-cwt in the background:
"ID Number: P04680.002; Place made: Greece; Date made: c April 1941; Summary: An Australian Army Ford 4x4 artillery tractor towing a No 27 Mk I limber and an 18 pounder Mk IV field gun, which has just negotiated a stone bridge through the winding and steep Verroia Pass, Greece. Approximately 1400 units of these Ford vehicles were purchased by the Australian Army between 1939 and 1941 and many of these were converted to four wheel drive by fitting a Marmon-Herrington front wheel drive kit to the chassis. 441 of these vehicles were sent to the Middle East in 1940 and 54 of these subsequently saw service during the Greek campaign in April 1941. These vehicles were powered by an 85 horsepower V8 engine with a four speed gearbox and two speed transfer case. They had leaf spring suspension and were also fitted with an Australian roadster style cab, making them a uniquely Australian vehicle. The Official designation for these vehicles was Tractor 4x4, Artillery (Aust), LP No 3 and 3A (fitted with a winch). This particular vehicle, with the army registration number 9964 was transported to Greece aboard the MV Comliebank but was later abandoned when the Australian forces were evacuated. "

Second pic shows a couple of 4x2 15-cwts:
"ID Number: 007816; Maker: Silk, George; Date made: April 1941; Summary: Greece. April 1941. During the withdrawal, motor transports and other vehicles passing through rugged country."

[cletrac (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Photo caption: "Transport vehicles passing through the village of Perdik during the withdrawal from Vevi, 13 April 1941."

Looks like an 11 Cab 15-cwt with 2B1 body. But Ford or Chev?

They have square vents so both the front ones are Fords. I can't tell on the back one.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by cletrac

They have square vents so both the front ones are Fords. I can't tell on the back one.

Also the shape of the radiator protector - they look to be F15s.

[cliff]

here is another #3 gun tractor from the AWM

ID Number: P04680.001; Place made: Greece; Date made: c April 1941; Summary: An Australian Army 18 pounder Mk IV field gun and a No 27 Mk I Limber, being towed by an LP No 3 or 3A artillery tractor through the Verroia Pass, Greece. The gun tractor is packed with soldiers and the gun traverse platform is visible stowed on top of the limber. Australian infantrymen are also visible trudging up the hill in the background. Credit line: Donor G Swinton

[T. Metsovitis]

CMPs captured by the Germans in Greece could just as well have been vehicles in Greek service. The Hellenic Army among other aid received from Britain, got 78 Ford 30 cwt and 44 F15s. A photo of the last type appears in one of the Panzer Colours books. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.

Fyll

[T. Metsovitis]

Here is the promised pic. On the front bumper is the Hellenic Army number and the hexagon on the mudguard, serving as a background for the "WH" is the insignia of the 19th Motorised Division. The photo comes from "Panzer Colours II" by Bruce Culver.

Fyll

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I love this thread! I particularly like the Heer gentleman, whom I asume is Feldgendarmarie and directing traffic?

As to the source of the AIF and NZEF trucks, these must in my opinion have been amongst those assembled in or and shipped out to, Alexandria. These were then issued subsequently to he Dominion forces and then by agreement between the respective Governments, payment was made retrospectively it would seem in some case from sometime in 1941 by Pounds Sterling to the Ministry of Supply I would imagine via the High Commissions in London. Shane has copies of the Australian version of the paperwork! I have seen Xeroxes myself and it explained a lot. I doubt that there is anything in the Kew, London archives on this so thanks AWM! And Shane!

The trucks (and carriers etc.) as issued and then sold were sent to Greece, and Palestine/Trans-Jordan and as we know survivors were eventually shipped back to the Antipodes and the rest is history!

As to the Hellenic Army trucks, that's new to me and I can only assume that as with Cheverolet WAs assembled in Alexandria and sold there to the War Office in Egypt (that were then sent to Greece: see Wheels & Tracks photo in Athens) that these were local-theatre assembly and then sold to the Hellenic Government.

I regret that my dad was in post-war Greece (1946-7) and therefore cannot add anything. He has however been a small mine of info about British trucks in Greece in the immediate post-war era when the Communists were very much a force to be reckoned with. I gather that they used Bedfords then.

[cliff]

David the Ford M/H LP No 3 or 3A artillery tractors would have been shipped with the AIF forces from Australia and not issued by the British to the AIF as they were built here and I believe the AIF were the only one's using them.

[Mike K]

I don't think I've mentioned it before . My uncle, Edward Kelly VX6350 , was captured by the Germans . He was in the 2/7 battalion and he spent 4 years as a POW in Germany .I'm not sure of the place of capture , probably either Greece or Crete. He said to me once " we were cannon fodder ". He always refered to rank stripes , corporal etc., as 'hooks'. Must be a peculiar aussi-ism.

Mike

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

IHe always refered to rank stripes , corporal etc., as 'hooks'. Must be a peculiar aussi-ism

Mike..
Probably served with some Canadians..I was quite proud of my "Hooks" when I got the first two..and really proud when I added the third "Hook"..

[Hanno Spoelstra]

All, thanks for the replies! I'd like to focus this thread on the CMP vehicles alone, particularly which units used which types of CMP trucks. If we cab get a clear picture of that, we can backtrack where they came from.

Originally Posted by T. Metsovitis

CMPs captured by the Germans in Greece could just as well have been vehicles in Greek service. The Hellenic Army among other aid received from Britain, got 78 Ford 30 cwt and 44 F15s.

Fyll, thanks for this - invaluable input! Any more info about the use of CMP trucks by the Greek Army, or their use after being captured by the German Army?

If I am not mistaken, the CMP trucks you mention were part of the shipment including those Vickers Dutchman tanks, right?

Sorry for asking all these questions, but inquiring minds want to know!

Thanks,
Hanno

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

All, thanks for the replies! I'd like to focus this thread on the CMP vehicles alone, particularly which units used which types of CMP trucks. If we can get a clear picture of that, we can backtrack where they came from.

Hanno you ask this and then mention Vickers Dutchman Tanks?????

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cliff

Hanno you ask this and then mention Vickers Dutchman Tanks?????

Well Cliff, if we know the CMPs and Vickers tanks came in the same shipment, it will improve our possibilities of tracing back where they were sent from.

H.

P.S.: and what else would you expect from a Dutchman, eh?