The Cookie Jar is Empty...

[mike mckinley]

hi chris

all the above statements are very true, but then there is the other side. i'm not speaking of everyone with this comment, but when something is offered, there is either a lack of interest, or those that do respond, want that item but don't want it for the price asked. there seems to be an attitude that regardless of the price asked, the condition of the item, historical significance, or what extras come with it, because it's painted od, it should be dirt cheap. case in point, i put my m151a2 up forsale about a month ago, and posted it first on the mv related websites, then on websites such as kijiji. the price i asked for the whole lot was a steal as i wanted to move it, and i figured it might give someone new to the hobby a chance without breaking the bank. no body from any of the mv related websites replied. i did get several replies from outside the mv hobby, and their first question was, "what is your bottom line price wise?". in my day that was the last question one asked, because one would first ask all the mechanical questions, or maybe request some additional info/ pictures/ actually go and look the vehicle over, then the offer was made. i even had one guy e mail me saying that the iltis was the best army jeep ever built and that anything built before it wasn't worth buying...and good luck selling my pile of sh^t. again, this doesn't reflect the thoughts of most in the hobby, but it does make me wonder what the next 20 years will bring. mike

[Mike K]

This is a highly interesting thread . I guess everyone's opinion will vary , your views will depend on when you first came into the old vehicle scene .

The MV collecting hobby , has grown here in OZ during the last 20 years or so. Just look at the numbers turning up at Corowa, more and more each year . For years ( I joined the MV club here in 1976 ) it seemed that things were stagnant . Some people don't like clubs and there must be a large number who do their own thing , not bothering to get mixed up in internal club politics ( it always happens, inevitable ).

The high prices on Epay , reflect the supply demand thing .... more people wanting hard to get parts .. prices go up . I spotted a slatt grill Jeep air cleaner for $700 US .. to me that's an absurdly silly amount ,but its the going price . And people are paying that much for the accessories . 8 years ago, I had a half ton of WW2 Jeep parts here ,mostly castings , axle housings , transfer cases , gearboxes, heads manifolds , 2 radiators , engine block . etc. I advertised it all as one lot in the club newsletter ( very cheap too ), got one tentative reply . I ended up selling the lot for $100 to a dealer who offered to take it all away ...

The cost of basic materials like paint , is becoming prohibitive too . How many people in their 20's can afford to spend $10,000 on restoring an old car ? The club here is trying to attract younger people ,but how many young males want to hang around a bunch of middle aged cronies .

Mike

[Keith Webb]

Hughes Trading

Also have a look at this gallery: Billy Drew
Although Bill had a LOT of yards with a LOT of CMPs he also had a large amount of parts.

Then there was Hughes Auto Spares as opposed to the by then separate Hughes Trading which was a warehouse full of parts for WW2 vehicles. Also Maloney Trucks in Melbourne and others in different parts of the country. Alas, almost all gone.

These were back in the 70s

[Ian Fawbert]

The cost of basic materials like paint , is becoming prohibitive too . How many people in their 20's can afford to spend $10,000 on restoring an old car ? The club here is trying to attract younger people ,but how many young males want to hang around a bunch of middle aged cronies .

While i am deviating off abit from the supply demand theme of things, i thought i would add my bit about new people into the movement. The old cronies i can handle!

I am 24- 25 in a few days. I guess i am an exception to the rule Mike referred to. I have been involved with vintage cars (real vintage cars not 1960's stuff) since i was born. I have rallied all over NSW and parts of Australia, followed the movement and been an active participant my whole life.

Instead of going with one of the unrestored cars at home, i chose to get a jeep. I got my first one in late 2001- body and chassis only of a 42 MB with a few other bits thrown in. My second in late 2002- a nearly complete, but dissassembled 42 GPW. I restored this jeep over 4 1/2 years while working part time, with the help of mum and dad on the weekends and trying to do 2 uni degree's at the same time. I estimate it cost me about 15,000 ish. But the finished product, while i may be blowing my own trumpet, is bloody brilliant and i would not trade it for anything- i will never sell my jeep. I now have another jeep- 44 ford i am working on while collecting bits for the 42 MB, the F15a too (which i am slowly working on) and 3 trailers with one more on the way all in varying conditions.

I bought them all at good to very good prices- not crazy prices, and 2 trailers, the F15A and the 3rd jeep, all with in the last 2 years. I have learnt that through hunting around, being patient, asking and buying when i find them, i will find/have found the pieces i need. Though i too realise that for me to continue my hobby into the next 50 years, it will be getting harder and harder as prices of general things which are needed continue to rise and parts become rarer. So i buy what i can, when i can and find that things like ebay can help and hinder a restoration! In a way i guess it could be argued, the price drive is actually hurting the future of the movement by forcing new comers out.

My problem now is that i need to start saving to move on in life- maybe a house one day or so on to house myself, the girlfriend and my vehicles! I am not rich, my parents haven't helped me out by buying the vehicles or parts, i just do what i can when i can and know i will get there in the end. I did the jeep when i did because i wanted to and dont regret any of it. Now i work full time as a teacher with alot of extra curricular activities, there isnt much time at all to play jeep, infact i`m suprised i spent this much time typing this message!

I think with the ever imposing costs of living, as Mike said, not many young people like myself want to spend in excess of 10k+ on restoring a vehicle because that can go along way to paying off a car or a deposit to a house. I guess thats where i am the exception agian. The only young guys i know of in my MV club are sons or daughters of members, but i often wonder how long they will stick around in the movement too or will other distractions draw them. In the vintage car club i am in, i am the only one under 30 and there is only 1 or 2 people above 30 and under 50.

Interesting times ahead for the movements (all movements) and i wonder, if in the future, the MV movement will experience the down fall that the vintage car movement has had in the last 15 years, from which it is only starting to pick up agian now. Hopefully it doesnt, but everything that goes up, must come down!

Sorry for ranting and raving. I hope it has given some insight into the views of a younger MV and MLU member.

Cheers,
Ian

[Rusty]

Over here in the Australian country side there is piles of stuff still lying about you just have to get off your bum and go for a drive. You will also need to be willing to cold knock on doors and just ask, I find most people are happy to have a quick chat and if they want there treasure they probably have a mate who doesn’t.

However we do not have very many Ian’s about who take on challenges as a 20 year old. I feel that western society demographics are changing rapidly; far fewer people are working in manufacturing or building trades, even fewer people aspire to owning a decent toolbox. Those who undertake trade training receive far less education in component manufacture, today its all unit change out. Our cities have reached out too far for practical travel and we now understand environmentally that we can’t just keep building on bush and farm land. Twenty years ago housing blocks averaged 900m2 these days they are down to 450m2. We are seeing huge amounts of urban infill going on with old homes coming down for town house development; people no longer have the skills or space to undertake a restoration. The cost of living is literally through the roof young people if they want a place in a major city these days will have a $500,000 mortgage for 30 years.

I think there will always be a few who take up the restoration challenge but numbers will dwindle. I think we will see the market for smaller fully restored vehicle types increase in value further as those who become High Income earners seek out a nice toy. But then again all our trucks may be up on blocks in a shed in 20 years because we cant afford to run them as fuel will become a very expensive commodity as former third world countries increase demand well beyond supply.

Agh?

[Mike K]

What interesting and erudite comments from everyone . One thing I have noticed down here , some people are getting into the MV hobby by buying a already restored vehicle , rather than going through the rebuild process themselves . The club I am in has seen this trend happen over the past ten years , and it's a growing trend . That's fine , but you won't learn anything if you buy a Jeep , ready to go . ... Doing it yourself ,we have to learn to become competant engine rebuilders, auto electricians, panel beaters , metal fabricators and spray painters .The end result may not be as good as a 100% proferssional rebuild , but you can say .. "I did it all myself ". Another trend is , more vehicles trailered to outings .. back in the 70's , this was unheard of . As owners become older , the long drives are less appealing in a draughty , slow and noisy machine - not to mention the huge number of massive trucks on the road these days . If I was driving to Corowa in a Jeep , I'd probably take the scenic route , over the ranges via Licola , rather than risk the death defying road rage game on the Hume freeway . Take 2 days to do it .

BTW in our last club newsletter , two going rebuilt WW2 jeeps for sale - owners cannot drive em anymore .. because of old age . It's happening before our eyes .Petrol is about to hit $1.50 a litre here ... Welbikes maybe the answer ! Time is catching up with us all , except young Ian F.

Mike

[PPS]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Petrol is about to hit $1.50 a litre here ...

Petrol is the equivalent of about A$2.30, and deisel in the region of A$2.45, a litre here in Northern Ireland. That works out at about A$10.40 a gallon for petrol and A$11.10 for diesel (for those of us who still work in gallons)

In some of the smaller country garages (and in some owned by greedy b!"£$%^s) it is more expensive still.

Paul.