Lapel badge: recognize it?

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi All

Darrell hasn't posted in a while because, more often than not, he can't get in!!!

Glen

Yes, your GF is wearing the cap and collar badges of the Canadian Armoured Corps (CAC). Issued in 1940 though never "officially" authorized as such. Thet were all siver in colour. You may now know we didn't gain the "Royal" prefix until after the war in Europe ended and didn't adopt the mailed fist badge for Corps Troops until July 1949. PPS is pretty spot on. Student and Staff (all ranks) of the Canadian Armoured Fighting Vehicle School (CAFVS) wore it as well as those going over seas as re-inforcements. Not uncommon at all for those who hadn't been Regimented yet. If he was an Ontario Regiment (Ont R) Officer, those badges would have came later.

No Ont R badges seen in that pic of the three. The centre chap's is a puzzzle as it's very hard to see but possibly Halifax Rifles (HR) Officers capbadge based on the shape and pointy bits locations. No other WW2 Armoured Regiment's capbadges match what I can see. Of the 32 units that served in the Corps during WW2 the HR looks closest to what that chap in the centre is wearing. I looked carefully at my collection of those unit's capbadges (missing just 3 but it's still a work in progress) and will say likely HR.

As for the sleeve patch, that was first used in 1938 to identify the Staff at the CAFVS and later Students of the various Canadian Armoured Corps Schools.

The name changes our Corps and it's schools went through can get a bit confusing at times!! Depend when that pic was taken, I guess. Any idea what month and year? What was your GF's name and do you know his ser #? PM/email it if you like. I may be able dig up a bit more unless you already have his file. Is he deceased? WW2 files aren't too too hard to get if you're family.

Hope that helps you.

regards
Darrell

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi again

I'm thinking now that the chap in the centre is NOT wearing the capbadge of the Halifax Rifles.

Mainly because his collar badges do not match the shape of the HR ones.

Possibly a COTC set then?

regards
Darrell

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally Posted by Darrell Zinck

Hi All

Darrell hasn't posted in a while because, more often than not, he can't get in!!!

Glen

Yes, your GF is wearing the cap and collar badges of the Canadian Armoured Corps (CAC). Issued in 1940 though never "officially" authorized as such. Thet were all siver in colour. You may now know we didn't gain the "Royal" prefix until after the war in Europe ended and didn't adopt the mailed fist badge for Corps Troops until July 1949. PPS is pretty spot on. Student and Staff (all ranks) of the Canadian Armoured Fighting Vehicle School (CAFVS) wore it as well as those going over seas as re-inforcements. Not uncommon at all for those who hadn't been Regimented yet. If he was an Ontario Regiment (Ont R) Officer, those badges would have came later.

No Ont R badges seen in that pic of the three. The centre chap's is a puzzzle as it's very hard to see but possibly Halifax Rifles (HR) Officers capbadge based on the shape and pointy bits locations. No other WW2 Armoured Regiment's capbadges match what I can see. Of the 32 units that served in the Corps during WW2 the HR looks closest to what that chap in the centre is wearing. I looked carefully at my collection of those unit's capbadges (missing just 3 but it's still a work in progress) and will say likely HR.

As for the sleeve patch, that was first used in 1938 to identify the Staff at the CAFVS and later Students of the various Canadian Armoured Corps Schools.

The name changes our Corps and it's schools went through can get a bit confusing at times!! Depend when that pic was taken, I guess. Any idea what month and year? What was your GF's name and do you know his ser #? PM/email it if you like. I may be able dig up a bit more unless you already have his file. Is he deceased? WW2 files aren't too too hard to get if you're family.

Hope that helps you.

regards
Darrell

Ref the AFV school cap badge, KC, Laurel Wreath, Canada, Mk V tank...Somewhere in my fuzzified brain there's something telling me that there were two types of this badge. One had the sponsons of the tank contained within the Laurel Wreath, the other had the sponsons extending beyond the Laurel Wreath. I'm fairly ceretain that it has been nailed down that the type with the sponsons inside the Wreath were the school AFV type. The other....????

[servicepub (RIP)]

I would argue that the 1st and 2nd officers are British as they do not wear the "Canada" flash. The second officer is from a Rifle Regiment (note the blackened buttons) while the third officer wears the "Canada" flash. They are not Officer Cadets but are (from left to right) a Second Lieutenant, Lieutenant, and another Second Lieutenant.
BTW, in the Canadian Army, the Tank badge was worn in the 1st Canadian Tank Brigade as well as by Armour units of the 4th Canadian Armoured Division. The 5th CAD specifically rejected the badge.

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi All

I gotta stop typing when tired. I was thinking that Glen's GF was on the left not the right. I guess since I've been flying a desk that my "keen recce eye" has clouded over somewhat!!!

Clive

Very good point. See, that's why you write books..........and I do not!!

If the left and centre chaps are indeed British then I cannot help. Stands to reason the left man is wearing a Brit Royal Tank Regt badge then. And the man in the centre; no idea at all now. Waaaaayyy too many badges there to keep straight.

regards
Darrell

[Darrell Zinck]

Hi again

OK, now I'm really confused. I've just re-read this thread.

Glen, you mention in you second post that your GF is on the right. Is that as we're looking at it or from the perspective of those Officers in the photo?

You show close ups of the badges/patch of both the left and right men (as we're looking at it). Which one exactly is your GF again??

If he is on the left (as we're looking at it and owning the badges you've shown us a close up of, then was he a Brit or a Cdn? If Cdn, then Clive's theory that he and the centre chap are British, doesn't hold. Mind you, his info on the sleeve patch wearers is spot on though. Both students and Staff at the "Armour School" wore them as well as those serving in in 1st Cdn Tk Bde and 4CAD.

Please clarify. I'll wait until I'm rested to carefully read your response.

regards
Darrell

[Glen]

Sorry it's taken a while for me to respond. Somehow I was waiting for one of those e-mail notifications that people responded here.

Here is some clarification, hopefully:

RE: [Glen, you mention in you second post that your GF is on the right. Is that as we're looking at it or from the perspective of those Officers in the photo? ]

Sorry for the confusion. My grandfather is on the right as you see him in the picture ( from the cameraman's perspective). From the perspective of my grandfather, looking at the camera, he is standing on the left of his friends.

RE: [If he is on the left (as we're looking at it and owning the badges you've shown us a close up of, then was he a Brit or a Cdn? If Cdn, then Clive's theory that he and the centre chap are British, doesn't hold. Mind you, his info on the sleeve patch wearers is spot on though. Both students and Staff at the "Armour School" wore them as well as those serving in in 1st Cdn Tk Bde and 4CAD.]

My grandfather was Canadian, and I know the guy in the centre was Canadian as well, and ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Caen. I'll blow up the picture of his cap badge for identification. I assume the guy on the left was Canadian as well. The picture was taken in Dundas, Ontario, Canada on Sept. 22, 1942. I know that the guy in the middle ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers.

Cheers,
Glen.

[Glen]

Sorry it's taken a while for me to respond. Somehow I was waiting for one of those e-mail notifications that people responded here.

Here is some clarification, hopefully:

RE: [Glen, you mention in you second post that your GF is on the right. Is that as we're looking at it or from the perspective of those Officers in the photo? ]

Sorry for the confusion. My grandfather is on the right as you see him in the picture ( from the cameraman's perspective). From the perspective of my grandfather, looking at the camera, he is standing on the left of his friends.

RE: [If he is on the left (as we're looking at it and owning the badges you've shown us a close up of, then was he a Brit or a Cdn? If Cdn, then Clive's theory that he and the centre chap are British, doesn't hold. Mind you, his info on the sleeve patch wearers is spot on though. Both students and Staff at the "Armour School" wore them as well as those serving in in 1st Cdn Tk Bde and 4CAD.]

My grandfather was Canadian, and I know the guy in the centre was Canadian as well, and ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers at Caen. I'll blow up the picture of his cap badge for identification. I assume the guy on the left was Canadian as well. The picture was taken in Dundas, Ontario, Canada on Sept. 22, 1942. I know that the guy in the middle ended up with the Sherbrooke Fusiliers.

Cheers,
Glen.