Dodge D-15 and D-60 info

[Matt]

Hi
I know I've posted before on the subject of Dodge D-15 and D-60 trucks but I would be greatful for some more help on the subject. thanks to the efforts of David H. we know roughly how many of both types were built but what I'd love to know is what has happened to them all?
I have a D-15 water bowser and I know a guy in Cornwall who has another which is only a few months newer that mine (my one is Aug.43 and his is April 44.both built to S/M2989 as water bowsers).there is a D-15 cargo version in the Durham area and I beleive there is another D-15 bowser in Scotland (Gordon did you tell me about it?) and of course Dirk has one which is a cargo.that makes five.

I would be interested to know if there are any other survivors anywhere,either D-15 or D-60.I would also love to hear of any photos or accounts of them in service.most of the bowsers seem to have been released from the British army in the mid to late 1950's with very little mileage on them.this begs the question did they ever see much service in Europe or being two wheel drive were they found to be too under powered? I know D-15's were used in North Africa though.

Another question is were D-15's or D-60's ever used by the Canadian forces? as they seem to have mostly been supplied under British S/M contracts it seems un-likely but I'd be greatful for any info either way.

I'm sorry if some of this is ground which has already been covered but so little seems to be known about these trucks I'd love to get to the bottom of the story.
Thanks!
Matt.

[gordon]

There was another water tanker chassis in Scotland, that was sold down to the north east of England, as was another D15 that got a cargo body - dont know what type it was originally. Also, there was a T110L D60 cargo in Aberdeen about 15 years back.

I think they have all been sold or moved, with only my stuff and the D8A 4 x 4 in Aberdeen left of the stuff that was rare or unusual.

The 'unfortunate' fact about the D15 and the D60s is that being 4 x 2 they were always worked to death by civilian owners post-war. They had lighter drivetrains than the 4 x 4 trucks so they had a better power to weight ratio, and the final drive ratio was lower too so they would drive faster. The only details I noticed on your was the cheapo blackout trim - half door panels, no headliner, real cost-reduction stuff.

Gordon

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

L 5597435 to 5598863 SM 2989 TRUCK 15-CWT.
4 X 2 WATER 15428-C-WATR-1 E.g built 21 April 1944 D15
T-222 Serials # 91xxxxxx –91xxxxxx

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Matt
I would also love to hear of any photos or accounts of them in service.most of the bowsers seem to have been released from the British army in the mid to late 1950's with very little mileage on them.this begs the question did they ever see much service in Europe or being two wheel drive were they found to be too under powered? I know D-15's were used in North Africa though.

Hi Matt,

He're some film stills of a D15 GS cargo driving off a landing craft on Sicily:





Source: http://www.britishpathe.com
film ID 1089.04

Full title reads: "SICILY: NEAR THE END".

Sicily, Italy.

Various shots of Spitfires taking off from Malta. Air to air shots of formation of Spitfires patrolling the skies over invasion fleet. Various shots of RAF (Royal Air Force) Squadron coming ashore in Sicily. RAF trucks and equipment arriving ashore by sea - they release a barrage balloon for protection.
A good shot at Comiso airfield of a RAF Spitfire taxiing past German Stukas. Various shots of the wrecked hangars and planes at the airport.
Close up shot of map of Sicily. Allied convoy anchored off Syracuse. Close up shot of a sign 'Siracusa'. General Bernard Montgomery driving through Syracuse. Several shots of Monty standing in his car to observe the distant bombing taking place at Augusta across the large bay.
Various shots of the British troops on trucks and tanks moving through Francofonte, the towns people give them oranges and other gifts. On the road out of Francofonte the British troops run into some sniper fire and have to take cover and return the fire. Italians surrender waving white flag.
A Scottish piper leading a line of British troops along the dry dusty road. Several shots of the large canvas water storage tanks being filled with water near the beach.
Various shots of food being handed out to civilians by the allied troops. Several shots of endless line of Italian prisoners.
Sequence showing German and Italian prisoners boarding a ship for England and arriving at British ports and stations. At one station they are given a bun and a sandwich.
Flashback to Benito Mussolini walking past some of his troops. Flashback to Italian King Victor Emmanuel taking salute. Library sequence showing Mussolini in various uniforms and on various occasions. One shot of him with Adolf Hitler standing in open car.

(Mute & Track Negs.)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

And another D15 GS cargo, in use with the Military Police(!) on Sicily:



Source: http://www.britishpathe.com
film ID 1089.03

Full title reads: "FORGING AHEAD IN SICILY".

Sicily, Italy.

Long shot of the sea off the coast of Sicily. The sea erupts around the allied ships during a raid by enemy aircraft. Various shots of the invading 8th Army starting to move inland from Syracuse. They march along the roadways and question an Italian soldier en route. In Rosolini, another Italian surrenders and the British troops are given wine from an old jug. Evacuees returning to town. Various shots of wrecked Italian equipment which includes Renault tank. Several shots of General Bernard Montgomery observing the advance of his army from a jeep. Convoy of equipment moving along road. Signpost 'Avola'. Several shots of the troops on bren gun carrier, some even ride on donkey carts. Soldier gives a chocolate to a woman holding a child. Various shots of the American airborne troops arriving on donkey cart in Avola. Various shots of the British, American and Canadian troops together.

Airfield in North Africa with the glider fleet which played a big part in taking of Sicily. Several shots of gliders being towed until they are airborne.

Various shots of support troops arriving at Syracuse with their equipment. They wade ashore from the landing craft. Larger items like bren guns also come ashore. Various shots of a tank, bren gun carrier and lorry sending up dust from dusty road as they advance. Various shots of activity in Syracuse the morning after the occupation. Troops and civilians in the streets. Long line of Italian prisoners walking along the road.

(Mute & Track Negs.)

[Mike K]

The doco series " COLOUR OF WAR " British episode , has some colour footage of D-15 GS trucks sitting on a landing ship during the Torch landing .

They are finished in Light Stone. BSC 61

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Matt,

D60s in the Ardennes!



Source: http://www.britishpathe.com
film ID 1970.04 | INVASION SCENES 'ARDENNES'

[Pete Ashby]

Hanno

What an atmospheric picture this is. Good old Tommy!! Note the tea mug well to the fore in the rear truck.

Pete

[Geir Iversen]

Hi

I live in Norway and I'm in the process of restoring a D-15 Water tanker. It was built to S/M 2989 and delivered on 15. Mars 44. The census number that I found partially on the hood and partially on the rear of the tank is Z 5597605 or Z 5598605. As you can see I'm not sure of the 4 number, the problem was that the previous owner had started to sand it down to restore it and he wasn't concerned about the history of the truck. I'm sure on all the other numbers, as it was possible to piece them together from the three places they were painted. As this was a late truck I think Z 5598605 is most probably the correct one.

The truck was used by the Norwegian army after the war and most likely wasn't used much by them. I friend of mine bought it in the early 80tis and late sold it to another collector. I bought it from his son again a couple of years ago.

There has been some other D-15's in Norway and I know of at least one more. I don't know if this has been a Water tanker as well, but it doesn't have a tank today. There is also another truck that might be a D-15, but it could also have been a D-60S, as I have only seen a picture of it I'm not sure.
The Norwegian army also used D-60L and I will try to go and look at one in the spring.

I like the Dodge D-15 and D-60 series very much and like Matt I would like to know and hear more about them as there is almost nothing written about them that I'm aware of. I hope some more info comes to light here at MLU.

Oh, and the water tanker is not mine, it belongs to my wife.

Geir

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

L 5597435 to L 5598863 SM 2989 TRUCK 15-CWT.
4 X 2 WATER 15428-C-WATR-1 E.g built 21 April 1944 D15
Model T-222 Serials # 91xxxxxx – 91xxxxxx

So the Census Number could be either! Is the serial number known please? I wonder if it was the earlier # 5598605, as it was built a month earlier than the other we know of...although of course we don't have the Census Number of the 21 April '44 truck.

[Geir Iversen]

Hi David

The serial number on the truck is 91070482, the engine number on the data plate is T222 32561-C. This engine has been replaced by another Dodge engine sometimes during its life. Later on we would like to get hold off a correct engine for the D15.

Geir

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Geir, this was one of the batch # 91,067,001 to # 91,072,000 built in Windsor, Ontario.

[Pete Ashby]

Matt

Have a look on this new site it may be of interest to you

WWW.old-dodge-trucks.co.uk

Regards

Pete

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

As mentioned before the serial number of the VK, plus the three RCAF buses, all fit into 1942 Model WK series, although the WK was I think a 1941-42 Model.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Matt
I would be interested to know if there are any other survivors anywhere,either D-15 or D-60.

Matt, I just came across these pictures of a couple of your beloved Dodges in an Italian museum:



Source: http://tanxheaven.com/fedcol/museo_i...seo_italia.htm

[gordon]

Interesting.

the back body on the desert sand one looks like a transplant, and the rear wings have a home-made look.

I know that 'everyone' says that the D15 cargo just came with a typical Ford / Chev CMP style rear body, but that body is SO heavy and the D15 chassis is SO light (compared to the Ford and Chev anyway) that I'd consider a D15 fully loaded just carrying the body in its own.

I still think there is a light, wooden, GS body type out there for the D15 which is more like the Bedford MW body.

G

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by gordon
the back body on the desert sand one looks like a transplant, and the rear wings have a home-made look.

I think it is a D60S tipper - see the picture from a manual below:


Source: Dodge 15-cwt or 3-ton swb?

[Erwin]

Matt,

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...&threadid=2156
presumably a D60 in Red Army service when entering
Vienna 1945. Still, it might be a D15...Can you tell for sure?

Erwin

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Matt
I would be interested to know if there are any other survivors anywhere,either D-15 or D-60.

Matt, here's a pic of another survivor: a D15 (with oversized Michelin rubber boots), pictured at a recent parade at Noorbeek, The Netherlands. Sorry, I don't know the owner.

HTH,
Hanno

[Matt]

Hi Hanno and Erwin
Thinks for the pics,it's good to know there are more of these trucks about than I had originally thought.I was reciently offered an early 1943 D15 cargo by a chap in France,it needed a lot of work but was complete with the original WW2 paintwork and markings,all data plates,lights etc.a price was agreed and we were going to bring it back to the UK in September but a couple of weeks ago I contacted the seller and he told me he has "given it to a friend for parts".I'm just glad I hadn't sent a deposit!

BTW,Gordon, the truck had the standered CMP type metal cargo body as have all original cargo D15's I have seen,either restored or in WW2 pics but if you can find a pic of an original truck with any other type of cargo body I'll buy you a drink or three next time you get down this way

[gordon]

Can't have too many Dodges. I'm still buying parts to put a panel van together, and there's at least one secret project bubbling on a related theme I wont go into here.

I wont go over my objections the the CMP body on a D15 chassis in detail, because that's apparently how they came - so be it.

The CMP Ford and Chev were built on huge really solid chassis which are pretty much the same standard up to a three ton rating, springs, axles and wheels notwithstanding. The D15 was an adaptation of the 1939 Dodge 1 ton civilian truck and the chassis was / is to me VERY flimsy compared to the CMP Ford / Chev which after all were designed and built specifically to take that body.

If a D15 had a CMP standard body on it, I don't know how much load you could put in it without breaking the back of it- frankly. Military use normally de-rated the chassis by 50%, which to me suggests the original chassis would be fine for something like a D8A application but would fall apart under heavier use. A comparsion fo the specified laden / unladen weights between the D15 and C15 / F15 would be interesting. Anyone have the figures? I might have to re-assess the D15 and see if it was actually built on the heavier Dodge 1.5 to 2 ton chassis used on the US WE and WF so I'll have a stare at your truck next time I'm in Welsh Wales and the kettle is on.

Any other movement on the other Dodges? got that compressor turning yet? Can I sell you a snowblower maybe 8~)

Gordon

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by gordon
A comparsion fo the specified laden / unladen weights between the D15 and C15 / F15 would be interesting. Anyone have the figures?

Gordon,

C-15 specs are on MLU:
Maximum Gross Rating: 11,200
Chassis and Cab (Curb Weight): 4,805

HTH,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Matt
I was reciently offered an early 1943 D15 cargo by a chap in France,it needed a lot of work but was complete with the original WW2 paintwork and markings,all data plates,lights etc.

Hi Matt, was this in the south of France? A Dutch guy I know recently bought a D15 plus a Morris-Commercial C4 from a collector down there. The D15 is in a very bad condition, I don't know if it will be restored or broken up for spares.

Here's another wartime pic of a D15. It was identified by Steve Guthrie on the missing-lynx.com forum as National Archives of Canada photo nr. PA140205, taken near Camobasso. Unusually, the jeep is of interest too as it is a Canadian contract one.

HTH,
Hanno

[Matt]

Hi Hanno and Gordon!
Yes the D15 I was hoping to buy was in the South of France.if it is going to be broken up I have a list of wants and if it is the same truck I know it had at least some of the parts I'm looking for on it so I'd be most greatful if you could pass my details to the owner.

Thanks for the pics,I did notice in some film of the D-Day landings I saw reciently at least one D15 which had obviously gone ashore soon after the landings and while I was in France in June I bought a postcard of a WW2 photo showing British troops on Gold beach and there is a clear front end shot of either a D15 or D60 but the rear end is out of frame so I can't tell which one!

Gordon I can't find any info on the load weight of a D15 in any of my manuals but the main plate in the cab has "Max gross weight except as controlled by tires,springs and auxiliary eqipment 8875" which I assume is pounds.I agree that the chassis on a D15 is not as heavy as that of a C15 BUT I would say the chassis and springs are heaver than a Dodge WC 3/4 ton.as I say I've never seen a D15 cargo with anything other than the steel Canadian body on it but I'm not saying there weren't other cargo bodies used.


Progress on the two US Dodge's is slow,the WC-56 has most of the missing fittings now and I'm just in the process of getting the 1948 registration back on the Weapons carrier.the Compressor truck is coming along but I havn't touched the compressor yet.so much to do so little time....!

[gordon]

So there's a 3000lb difference in tha maximum gross weight, eh? that sounds about right.

There's clearly more to be found out here, maybe there were heavy and light variants of the body, for example, and it is possible that the D15 chassis is heavier than I thought, though still lighter than the true CMP one.

Keep going.

Gordon

[Erwin]

Hi,

Like Matt, I´m very eager to get any info, in particular WARTIME pictures of D-15´s in service. Many thanks to anyone contributing to our search!!

Gordon:
1. The rear fenders to the desert camo dumper are homemade. The D 60S dumper came without rear fenders.
2. According to the original maint. manual, there is a significant difference in materiel strength between the D15 and D60.(0.210-D 15 to 9/32-D 60). The same applies to rear axles. Everything smaller in dimension then the bigger brother. So the D15 has its own chassis which is weaker than the D60 e.g. Comparison to C/F15 I don´t know...
3. Presuming wooden bodies have been used: could it only have been a 2H1 for a D-15?Or any other? I´m pretty weak on British cargo bodies...

Hanno:
1. Do you please have the name/contact of the Dutch guy producing repro tool boxes and tire holders? You indicated earlier you´d have info on that...Bedankt.
2. the Dutch D-15 dumper with Michelin tires belongs to Guus Persoon in Holland.

Matt:
1. Fy record: There is one more D-60 in northern Bohemia, in Liberec. Status unknown.
2. The pic I´ve posted earlier showing a Soviet Dodge:
can you tell if it´s a D15 or a D60?
3. Haven´t seen a wooden GS body on any original pic so far. But I´m also keen to find one. If you come across one, P L E A S E share it!
The Austrian dealer at camo.co.at has one wooden GS D-15 for sale,but the body has been taken from a Chevy!(Which is now being sold as a wrecker.)
4. Have brought the same pic from Normandy you mentioned! Impossible to tell if it´s D15 or D60.

Greetings and thanx for contributing to an exotic topic!
Erwin

[cliff]

while I have no info on wooden bodied D15's I have this pics of a Dodge D60 in Australian service in WW2. picture is from the Australian War Memorial Database.

[Keith Webb]

Seeing the interest in this thread I've started to build a Dodge page on the Old CMP site.
I'll post more images as I scan them.


D60L at the Melbourne Tank Museum.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Erwin
Hanno:
1. Do you please have the name/contact of the Dutch guy producing repro tool boxes and tire holders? You indicated earlier you´d have info on that...Bedankt.
2. the Dutch D-15 dumper with Michelin tires belongs to Guus Persoon in Holland.

Erwin,

Re.1) Sorry, I can't remember his name - ask Dirk Leegwater, he knows who I am referring to.
Re.2) Thanks, I did not get to speak to the driver as I didn't attend the parade - my dad took the pictures.

HTH,
Hanno

[Larry Hayward]

A Dodge D-15 is still for sale by Camo Militärfahrzeuge in Austria, which has been mentioned elsewhere on MLU. See the link to the site for a small selection of pictures of the vehicle and many more for sale.

http://www.camo.co.at/fahrzeuge/mil45/index.htm

Camo is written in German. If you don't read German very well, then use AltaVista Translations by copying & pasting the text into the translation box.

Larry Hayward