“1941 CMP Amphibious vehicle” (4x4)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

If it is a conversion from a DUKW, it seems to be a pretty extensive one. It proved a little difficult to find decent DUKW drawings online, but even with a poor-resolution one overlaid on the photo, it’s clear that if this is a converted DUKW hull, a lot of cutting must have been involved:

The shape of the front wheel well is different both at the front and rear, the rear wheel well is much smaller and squarer, not to mention further forward, the whole foredeck and the cowls alongside the cab are different, etc.

A detailed study of the hull structure may yield insights into whether the "Italian fire brigade duck" was converted from a DUKW hull or is some sort of copy.

img_3.jpg img_6.jpg

duk313.jpg pompe-de-cale-principale-dans-son-environnement.jpg

[Jakko Westerbeke]

I take it the first two photos are of the CMP conversion, since it has the steering wheel on the right-hand side, while the last photo is of a DUKW? If so, I’d say the CMP is a copy/“inspired by” rather than having been adapted from a DUKW. It looks like somebody had a DUKW at hand and thought, “We need another vehicle like that, let’s build something much like it on this CMP we also have.”

[David Herbert]

I agree with Jakko. It is too professional a construction to be home made or a mock up or a scam and I see no evidence that it is a conversion of a DUKW - there are too many structural differences and no signs of modifaction to the wheel arches which are different to DUKW ones.

I think that the most likely explanation is that it is a post war Italian construction using then readily available new or nearly new CMP parts.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

I take it the first two photos are of the CMP conversion, since it has the steering wheel on the right-hand side, while the last photo is of a DUKW?

Yes,...

If so, I’d say the CMP is a copy/“inspired by” rather than having been adapted from a DUKW. It looks like somebody had a DUKW at hand and thought, “We need another vehicle like that, let’s build something much like it on this CMP we also have.”

... plus I think they used some of the more intricate fittings like the propeller drive line and ducts to construct an amphibious vehicle for fire brigade/ emergency services.

The % of DUKW components is anyone's guess, this is very much a case of "Trigger's Broom". US-based operators of DUKWs have extensively rebuilt and modified DUKWs to a stage where they are a mere "dataplate restoration/ reconstruction" like many of the warbirds flying today

3795295_072018-cc-ducks-then-now-split-img.jpg BostonDuckTours.jpg

[Harry Moon]

perhaps a prototype or pre production with the UK as the client?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

perhaps a prototype or pre production with the UK as the client?

GMC was churning these out by the 1000’s; why would the UK need/ want to source these from Canada? If there would have been a need for a second source, they surely would have chosen to build the DUKW to print. And if this was a bespoke Canadian design, by now we would have surely found traces in the AEDB or similar period sources. My $0.02 CDN…

[Harry Moon]

It wasn’t made in Canada but appears that it may have been built by yellow truck in Michigan in a plant that in the same year geared up for and produced many DUKW. I just can’t see anyone building a one off outside of a trials or pre production product when 6x6 DUKW were plentiful and cheap.

[Bruce MacMillan]

There may be an Italian connection as they used amphibious fire vehicles. Perhaps a vehicle that has been done over as a military vehicle?

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

If there would have been a need for a second source, they surely would have chosen to build the DUKW to print.

The UK did want, and produced, an alternative to the DUKW:

Terrapin Middelburg (col. J.C. van Winkelen).jpg

But given that they had both, I agree that it would be unlikely to want a third source for yet another vehicle, especially — as you mention — DUKW production was well underway in the USA.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

It wasn’t made in Canada but appears that it may have been built by yellow truck in Michigan in a plant that in the same year geared up for and produced many DUKW. I just can’t see anyone building a one off outside of a trials or pre production product when 6x6 DUKW were plentiful and cheap.

To me that's an indication DUKW parts were used in its construction. The question is if DUKWs were plentiful and cheap in the area where the subject vehicle was constructed.

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

The UK did want, and produced, an alternative to the DUKW:

But given that they had both, I agree that it would be unlikely to want a third source for yet another vehicle, especially — as you mention — DUKW production was well underway in the USA.

Good point, but the Terrapin was an indigenous product.