“1941 CMP Amphibious vehicle” (4x4)

[Ed Storey]

Given the number of vehicles used by the 1st Canadian Division from the landings in Sicily through to the end of the war in Germany, and how few, if any, have survived to this day; I am really curious how such a 'rare' vehicle has ended up for sale in Germany?

[Alex van de Wetering]

It's quite elaborate for an April fools joke...

[David Dunlop]

I have been looking into the history of the DUKW a bit more as a result of Bruce McMillans comments.

Several online sources state total production was on the order of 20,000 vehicles across two models, ten percent of which went to the British Army. They were the largest none American user during the war.

The MilWeb photos still do not answer a lot of questions and if anything, raise more. However, my thoughts about this particular vehicles origins have shifted now. Rather than focusing on the CMP aspect of this item, and all the Canadian spinoff that comes with that concept, is it more possible that this might actually be a design concept trial vehicle developed entirely in England during the war? The British Army clearly liked the DUKW, they bought a lot of them. But could reliable deliveries have been enough of an issue during the Battle of the Atlantic that they seriously considered cloning the DUKW with available resources. If that were the case, it would make sense absolutely no records of said vehicle would show up anywhere in Canada. Research instead would have to focus on who might have designed, built and tested the vehicle in England. On that basis, it could very easily have been embedded in the supply of DUKWs being utilized by the British Army in Sicily, for evaluation purposes. Was there a specific research establishment in England during the war where this development project could have taken place.

As an aside to Bruces comments regarding the use of the DUKW by the Canadian Army during WW2, it seems to have persisted in another variation through to the 1950s at least. During the 1950 Flood in Winnipeg, two dozen DUKW's were on strength in Military District 10, headquartered here in Winnipeg. As the flood developed, these DUKWs were consolidated at the Crescentwood Community Club grounds on Corydon Avenue for deployment to assist the civil authorities as needed. This area was high ground close to River Heights and Ft Osborne Barracks (MD 10 HQ). Interestingly, these DUKWs were operated and manned by RCN personnel to accommodate the needs of the Canadian Army. Six of these DUKWs were still at the Kapyong Army Base in Winnipeg in the late 1960's and early 1970's and one would often be seen on the roads in River Heights with large DRIVER TRAINING signs hanging off of it, and being operated completely by 2PPCLI personnel by that time.


David

[Bruce MacMillan]

There should be stamps on the frame, motor, chassis, etc that give a clue to origin. If the seller is making the claim of Canadian origin then I would expect these to be revealed. Maybe it's a frankentruck.

Canada switched from right hand to left hand (steering wheel position) drive back in 1924.

[Niels V]

I am wondering if it could have been made by the Italians post ww2.
To utilise some of the things they had received in military aid

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

is it more possible that this might actually be a design concept trial vehicle developed entirely in England during the war? The British Army clearly liked the DUKW, they bought a lot of them. But could reliable deliveries have been enough of an issue during the Battle of the Atlantic that they seriously considered cloning the DUKW with available resources.

David

The Brits definitely liked the DUKW....I think the last 2 were released from the Royal Navy only a few years ago(?).
But, if a supply problem due to the battle of the Atlantic was the issue, why would they use Canadian overseas components to build this DUKW clone in stead of using domestic components supporting their own industry?
I guess anything is possible.....but I am with Niels that this could well be a postwar development from the Italians...or maybe even French navy?

But, the date of april 2nd for the ad is too much of coincidence for me.....there are too much different pictures to be photoshop, so the vehicle most likely exists......but I have a feeling the seller might be having a laugh with the advert text.

[Harry Moon]

I contacted the seller and asked for some info, the ad itself has several more pictures. I got the pictures of the engine plate. It wasn't made in Canada but by Yellow Truck & Coach Manufacturing in Pontiac Michigan. Looking into Yellow, which was bought by GM at the end of 42, I found the records of how many DUKW's they made along with several 6X6 models Interestingly they only made 49 4X4 trucks and only in 1942 but curiously the reference has a question mark where the model would be listed. My curiosity is got me going.

[Harry Moon]

Also the serial number on the frame matches the engine,(as presented) Mysteries.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Great to see the MLU fraternity diving into this mystery!

From what I know and what I read here I'd say this vehicle is at best a post war military conversion of a GMC DUKW, but much more likely a postwar civilian conversion using some CMP components.

After WW2 in the Netherlands, many GMC CCKW trucks were converted for civilian use to haul dirt/soil. As the load was at least doubled, frames were strengthened or replaced, diesel engines were fitted and axles were replaced by CMP GM C60X axles as they are stronger than the original GMC axles. I suspect that is what happened here.

A number of Italian military vehicles had a steering wheel on the right to cope with driving conditions on narrow (mountain) roads, so that may be a reason why this vehicle was converted to RHD if it is of Italian origin.

There must have been a solid reason for this conversion, it is too much work for a "folly" or an April's fools joke.

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[Jordan Baker]

Harry.

The engine is a GMC270. All of them were made by Yellow Truck and Coach. It’s the same basic engine as found in the Otter, Fox, C15TA and C60X