Crusader wrecks in Maryland?

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Philliphastings

What’s the mximum lift capacity of a Chinook or Skycrane ��

Cheers

Phill

A civilian Chinook or Skycrane would be expensive and have to be closely coordinated as those aircraft are in demand throughout the year for cargo or firefighting around the world.

From Imperial War Museum catalogue for a Crusader II: Weight 42560-lbs, Height 88", Length 236", Width 104".

From US Army for Chinook CH47F: Sling-load capacity: 26,000-lbs center hook, 17,000-lbs forward/aft hook, 25,000-lbs tandem.

From a commercial operator of CH54A and S-64 Skycrane helicopters: the aircraft is capable of lifting payloads approaching 20,000-lbs.

So, no. Not intact. But possible disassembled. In my unsophisticated way, I would remove the surrounding trees to a radius of 25m, rig slings under the hull between the roadwheels, secure the turret from rotating, and lift straight out to the nearest large parking area. The weight of the steel is less an issue that the suction of the mud under the hull and tracks, therefore shovels, air compressor lances, jacks and blocking would be my recovery implements.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Recovery should technically be possible. But it is a wildlife reserve, so any disturbance is a no-no. Let alone with big honking helicopters

I guess we will have to view these tanks as preserved wildlife, too. At least this has kept them from being scrapped…

[tankbarrell]

The wildlife would recover overnight. I've spent many hours on active ranges and they are infested with wildlife. Birds of all sorts, rodents, foxes, deer etc etc. They keep coming back despite the active use with vehicles and artillery.
You hear the same arguments about airstrips.
It's only humans who seem to get traumatised by a little noise or somebody else enjoying themselves.

[ChaseR83]

Thank you for the replies guys,

I should add my interest in the tanks is for research, although don't get me wrong if there was a legit way for me to recover one to restore I would.

Crusaders are pretty rare in general but especially here in the USA, IIRC the only other one is now at Ft. Benning... essentially out of reach of the public. I "may" have made a new friend recently that would be able to get me access the the Ft. Benning tank... but even then a museum is only going to allow so much.

The state of the 4 Maryland wrecks seem ideal from a research standpoint, one is upside down, one is missing at least a portion of the side armor, various hatches are open or missing.

If the only real hurdle that they are in a semi-secret location well-off the beaten path... then it sounds like I need to dig out my hiking boots for the chance to have free access to photograph, measure and sketch the inside and outside the tanks.

If anybody knows a more specific location but does not want to post it online to keep the tanks safe from scappers or scavengers... I respect that, but I'm also willing to keep the location private if you'd like to share.

Thanks guys.

[Jordan Baker]

Some more pictures found on the net.

https://www.com-central.net/index.ph...er=asc&start=0

There is also the remains of a M5 Stuart there.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

Sounds like an interesting recovery project. But before any recovery effort is even considered some history research into the "Wildlife Preserve" if memory serves me correctly some of the Preserves are actually old target ranges some dating back to Civil War. They have so much unexploded munitions that they are both economically and technology impossible to clear. They became Wildlife Preserves by default people were kept out and the Wildlife moved in.

Source of the Crusaders was most probably Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

The classifications as Wildlife Preserves may also have less to do with desire to protect the wildlife but as much to do stopping the military's use of them to make things go bang.

Cheers Phil

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Adrian, Phil, I agree with you. I too have the experience that wildlife thrives on ranges - in fact, any place where man does not come often. The wildlife would not be too bothered by a couple of big tracked tractors recovering these hulks. Surely, the next day the birds would be back and any removed foliage would quickly grow back.

But some people's hobbies and jobs are all about wildlife, and they will do anything to prevent disturbance and don't care anything about a rusty tank hull. They see it as a shelter for the Scarlet Tanager or similar. Our hobby is the opposite, we would do anything to recover a rusty tank or truck, and would not see any harm in disturbing the Scarlet Tanager or Wood Thrush for a few days in the process.

I read the Patuxent Research Refuge was established by Executive Order in 1936, so I wonder if the military took in back during WW2 to make things go bang. Anyhow, a pointed out above, in this case it seems this former military area is (at least partly) a reserve, to not have to bother with the UXO. Over on the AFV Association forum this remark says it all: "He says there were five Crusaders at the research refuge, but warned that they warn you to stay on the trails & sign a waiver lest you step on some unexploded ordnance".

So Chase, I'd say get over there, sign that waiver and go find those hulks - but do tread lightly!

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