Shovel ID?

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by rob love

Whenever I make it to one of the units on base and am in their battery/company level stores, I ask to look at their shovels, .

Reminds me of the 'Ripping Yarns ' episode


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYpsz2eAKOs

[Lang]

Here is an extensive article on military WW2 shovels.

Looks like whatever make or style you have is correct.

http://jeepdraw.com/John_Barton1_Shovels.html

Anyone who has ever had to use a shovel in anger knows the extreme bend on a "jeep" shovel makes it very difficult to use properly while any of the more conventional straighter shank shovels are ergonomically superior.

Everyone talks about #2 being the correct shovel but those with other period styles may find #2 stamps on straighter shank varieties even long handled types. I think #2 referred to the size or possibly blade shape (round, square or coal-shovel). Because #2 is found on nearly all jeep curved shovels it has become legend it refers to them alone.

Lang

[Lang]

Just pulled 4 period shovels out of the shed. I am pretty well convinced the number refers to the shape/size of the blade and has nothing to do with a particular vehicle application or handle bends.

Here are 4 shovels.

1. Conventional "straight" 30 degree shank Stamped #2. The handle would stick out if fitted to a jeep.

2. "Jeep style" curved extreme 45 degree angle shank Stamped #2. Note blade is same as #1.

3 Conventional shank, angle same as #1, coal/sand/snow shovel large blade Stamped #3

4. Large conventional shank, angle same as #1, British "T" handle Stamped #5

Shovel.jpg

[Lang]

There is more to shovels than meets the eye (except for Chinese beauties)

Here are Irish post-war regulations but I am sure every country had similar rules.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/.../made/en/print

Please note all this talk about shovels is totally wrong. A shovel has a long handle and a spade has a short handle.

Local language use describes a shovel or a spade by their shape, square or round - either way, in different places around the world, coal shovels and snow shovels but this is only tradition and not a manufacturers accepted desciption. In fact many people have never used the word spade for a digging instrument of any variety. Many experts, particularly gardening experts, on advice websites and hardware stores perpetuate this description. Then we have people talking about short or long shovels. Just because some technical writer who had never seen one called it a "shovel" in a manual or parts book does not make it so.

This is the important bit. Long handled shovels (or spades if you are a spade man) tend to have the blade in line with the handle for plunging and levering while standing erect - hard stuff and holes. Short handled spades (or shovels if you are a shovel man) have the blade angled for scooping and lifting - soft and loose stuff. You sometimes come upon a shovel or spade that has been fitted with the opposite handle and wonder why the thing has a useless angle. A bent spade shank and a straight shovel shank can both be exactly the same blade shape and both stamped #2.

PS Further info: The numbers refer to the size/weight not the shape. A #2 can be round or square and is the first and most common "man-sized" weight offered by manufacturers. #1, #00 and #0 are smaller garden, trench or specialist shovels/spades. #3, #4 and #5 are starting to get beyond amateur use and are made for operators with strength and skill ie concrete workers or boiler firemen.

Standard sizes may vary slightly between manufacturers but will be close to:

#2 9X12
#1 8 1/2x11
#00 7x9
#0 6x7 1/2

In the end in 99% of cases it matters not what you call it so long as you get the right size, handle length, blade angle and shape for the job in hand. Putting a long handle on a bent shank spade (round or square) is perfect to scoop sand from under the vehicle in the desert but useless for digging out of mud while putting a short handle on a straight shank shovel (square) is perfect for doing concrete grass edging but useless for filling the barrow with sand. Are they then shades and spovels?

And lastly "You can shovel some dirt out with a spade and spade the garden flat with a shovel"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lang

This is the important bit. Shovels tend to have the blade in line with the handle for plunging and levering while standing erect - hard stuff and holes. Spades have the blade angled for scooping and lifting - soft and loose stuff.

And lastly "You can shovel some dirt out with a spade and spade the garden flat with a shovel"

Interestingly, in Dutch it is the other way around. A spade is used for plunging and levering while standing erect, a schep or schop is used for scooping and lifting soft and loose stuff.

Back to the first post: as far as I can tell the "Bulldog - Made in Canada" was made for the civilian market, but procured and issued to military users. The fact that it has a Patent marking and no WD C broad arrow /|\ marking is key to this.

I have seen them in plain wood handle with black metal parts, or green overall.

Tools like spades, shovels, picks were typically off the shelf items with no specific military requirements.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Lang

In fact many people have never used the word spade for a digging instrument of any variety.

This does not mean they’re correct, though Many people call any military vehicle that has either armour or tracks, let alone both, a “tank” — does that make a Universal Carrier a tank, or an M29 Weasel?

The distinction is that a spade is an implement for digging, while a shovel is an implement for moving loose stuff around. It has nothing to do with what it looks like, but everything with what its intended use is. Look at the blade: if it’s strong, made from thick steel with a fairly sharp edge, the tool is most likely a spade; if it’s thin, usually pressed steel, the tool will probably be a shovel. Of course you can use a spade for shoveling stuff, or a shovel for digging a hole, but neither will work as well as the other for those jobs — especially if you try digging with a shovel in hard or sticky soil.

[Lynn Eades]

From now on, I will store my short handled shovel and my long handled spade with my left handed screw driver.

Actually a great post Lang. Maybe you could delve into picks and mattocks?

[Lang]

Well here we go.

Why is a mattock called a mattock?
Etymology. From Middle English mattok (“mattock, pickaxe”), from Old English mattuc, meottoc, mettoc (“mattock, fork, trident”), from Proto-Germanic *mattukaz (“mattock, ploughshare”), from Proto-Indo-European *met- (“to cut, reap”).

1. A pick is a tool with a pointed end for breaking up hard soil or loosening rocks. Picks oftten have a large pointed end and a smaller pointed end. Many picks have the second point flattened to a horizontal cutting blade about 1 1/2" wide to allow a limited ability to cut through roots etc..

2. Pick-driver, miners pick or pick-hammer. This is a pick with only one pointed blade but the opposite side has a stub "hammer" for breaking rocks or hard lumps dug out by the pick. If you are a good shot it can be used for driving stakes and tent-pegs.

3. Pick-axe. There are two types. The Americans refer to a pick-axe as a tool that has one pointed end and a long flat blade with a sharp edge horizontal like a mattock but narrower and made for cutting roots etc. It can be used for digging.

In other places a pick-axe can be a tool with the narrow point and on the other side a shorter vertical "axe-like" blade for cutting roots etc. While it can not be used for digging like the American pick-axe it is far more efficient for chopping with similar charecteristics to a proper axe. See the blade on the Grubbing Mattock below.

4. Mattock. This is a tool that can have pick-like pointed end and a fairly short curved horizontal blade (much wider and usually shorter than the American pick axe blade) for chopping and digging. Some mattocks come without the pointed side and have the "Hammer" stub, some mattocks come with the vertical axe, probably most common, and some mattocks come with a large and small curved flat blade for different jobs.

5. A hoe, which does not come from New York, is a lighter tool with a broad horizontal blade with or without a pointed opposite side usually referred to as a gardening implement (tell this to people swinging them in a rice paddy)

Here is a selection. Americans commonly call all pick types a "Pick Axe" even if they have a point on each side or no opposite blade like a miners pick without any axe function at all. The rest of the world differentiates between Pick and Pick Axe.

Lastly a photo of what I have found to be almost universally seen in photos of American WW2 equipment. Shovel with steel "D" handle and normal blade angle, standard axe, mattock with round pick point (not the axe type)

s-l500 (3).jpg Screenshot (222).jpg

Screenshot (224).png complete-military-vehicle-pioneer_1_f058e2064883a9da34e9df22aadb8f84.jpg