Operation Infatuate II: Sherman tanks at Westkapelle

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by MicS

WRT the tank Serial Number, have you looked on the rear towing lugs? It shoud be stamped there (on both lugs), but you might have to scrape the paint off, which I suppose will not be a problem since the paint job is not done yet?

See: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_m...n_serials.html

I think the best bet to find any number on this rusty hulk is to look in the driver's compartment, where the Serial Number may be stamped 6 inches (15 centimeters) left from the dataplate (as per the link above).

chryslerm4_105mm34.jpg

[David Dunlop]

Hanno and Jakko.

I would suggest using a Dremel tool with lots of brass and steel wire discs to slowly cut through the paint and rust on the rear towing lugs.

Over time, the paint and rust will have infilled the letter stamping. The trick is to clean back the paint and rust carefully from the surrounding metal to let the infill highlight what is left of the stamping.

To do that you must work the wire wheels slowing on a diagonal across the face of the lugs. The lines of most letters and numbers will be parallel to the length and width of the lugs. If you work the wire wheel in either of those directions, you risk sweeping the paint and rust out of the stamping and losing the benefit of them to highlight what might be left of the marks.

A bit like cleaning an elephant with a toothbrush, but this might be the only opportunity left to carefully examine these areas for valuable production markings. Something that should not be rushed or done too aggressively at this point in time.

David

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Thanks for the suggestions, all I had misremembered the serial number’s location and so looked in the wrong place. I will go back soon, equipped with some tools to remove paint, and check the different locations where it might be.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

We went back to the tank today and attempted to find the serial number. Starting in the area Hanno pointed out, we found nothing, but above where the data plate would have been, traces of the number did appear.

IMG_7447.jpg

Once located, I took a whole bunch of photos of the remains of the number: straight on, from above and the sides, with and without flash, with and without a light shining from side on. I’ll put the usable ones in this message and the following ones.

As you can see, the number appears to start with 21 but the last two digits are very hard to make out. They’re both “round” numbers, though: something like 60, 66, 69, 80, 86, 89, or maybe even 30, 36 or 39. I hope our collective recognition ability and/or tinkering with images can give us a definite answer

IMG_7440.jpgIMG_7441.jpgIMG_7442.jpgIMG_7443.jpg

[Jakko Westerbeke]

IMG_7444.jpgIMG_7445.jpgIMG_7446.jpgIMG_7448.jpgIMG_7449.jpg

[Jakko Westerbeke]

IMG_7450.jpgIMG_7451.jpgIMG_7452.jpgIMG_7453.jpgIMG_7455.jpg

[Jakko Westerbeke]

IMG_7456.jpgIMG_7457.jpgIMG_7458.jpg

[Alex van de Wetering]

What about the old trick of putting a thin piece of paper over de number and rubbing a pencil against it?

I tried to spice up one of the pictures, but I can't get a clear view.....2106 (too much space between 1 and 0 I guess), 2030, 2036???

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

What about the old trick of putting a thin piece of paper over de number and rubbing a pencil against it?

You can tell I’m not used to doing this kind of thing, because the thought didn’t occur to me at all when trying to make the number visible on the actual tank.

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I tried to spice up one of the pictures, but I can't get a clear view.....2106 (too much space between 1 and 0 I guess), 2030, 2036???

I’ve also tinkered with the colours, contrast, levels etc. a bit and didn’t really have much success yet. I may need to try again … I think the fourth digit is a 0, though: there seems to be nothing in the middle of the number that would indicate a 6 or a 9, and the left side isn’t pinched in like you would expect for an 8.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

As you can see, the number appears to start with 21 but the last two digits are very hard to make out. They’re both “round” numbers, though: something like 60, 66, 69, 80, 86, 89, or maybe even 30, 36 or 39. I hope our collective recognition ability and/or tinkering with images can give us a definite answer

Great work, Jakko! I can’t enhance the photos on the device I am currently using, but here is a list of M4A4 serial numbers which may help to narrow doen the options:

Part II, SNL G-104, Vol. IX, the Preliminary Service Parts Catalogue for Tank, Medium M4A4 built by Chrysler Co. under contract number W-ORD-461 lists the following serial numbers:

• 4805 through 6204 (1,400 ea.)
• 16555 through 20554 (4,000 ea.)
• 20555 through 23904 (3,350 ea.)

Note: this contract totals 8,750 M4A4s. As only 7,499 M4A4s were actually delivered, s/n 22653 must have been the last one built.

From my website: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/g104/serial.htm

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Thanks. I haven’t tried enhancing the photos yet, but I couldn’t make out parts of the numbers on the tank and didn’t find a fifth digit at all. I have a feeling the tank was sandblasted in 1994 and part of the numbers wore away then — the surface they’re on is pretty uneven.

It looks to me like the number is 2130 (and one more number, of course), but I’d be happy to be proved wrong

[James P]

Originally Posted by Jakko Westerbeke

Thanks. I haven’t tried enhancing the photos yet, but I couldn’t make out parts of the numbers on the tank and didn’t find a fifth digit at all. I have a feeling the tank was sandblasted in 1994 and part of the numbers wore away then — the surface they’re on is pretty uneven.

It looks to me like the number is 2130 (and one more number, of course), but I’d be happy to be proved wrong

Bead blast the area fine a fine grit 100-120 and just enough pressure to knock off all the clutter of paint and primer that working the area with a wire wheel just makes a confusing mess. If you cannot get in there with a small hand held media gun, chemically remove the paint scale, once the surface is bright (paint free) run a black wax crayon over the stamping to back fill then, or do a paper rubbing. I have had some great results going the black crayon route, but you need to prep and clean the areas better to make things pop. Oblique lighting with the brightest light possible yields great results, but if the stamping are not there (light struck) then they are just plain not there.

[Jakko Westerbeke]

Originally Posted by James P

If you cannot get in there with a small hand held media gun

I don’t even know what a media gun is, aside from assuming from context that it’s a tool to do with sandblasting

Thanks for the tips, though I may not be able to go back before the tank gets sandblasted in order to try some out

Originally Posted by James P

if the stamping are not there (light struck) then they are just plain not there.

Technically it should be possible to bring them out with the right equipment, due to the invisible deformation the stamping will have caused in the underlying metal, but that requires all kinds of forensics-type kit, like that used to retrieve filed-off serial numbers from guns. Somehow, I think I won’t have access to that either …

Also, someone pointed out to me that the second digit is probably a 0, not a 1. It’s odd, but when I was looking at the real thing it looked definitely like a straight number 1 to me, but in the photos I see the round shape of a 0 instead … So it’s probably 2030X.