M38Cdn Refurbishment

[Wayne Hingley]

Looks great Pete. I guess with the price of copper going north of $4 USD we are seeing blends of other metals rather than pure copper washers for use in brake systems. I didn't know the new washers are junk.
I see the "supervisor's chair" in one of your photos. Its good the boss is providing over watch, so you don't get yourself in trouble.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Wayne Hingley

I guess with the price of copper going north of $4 USD we are seeing blends of other metals rather than pure copper washers for use in brake systems. I didn't know the new washers are junk.

I don't think the issue is the price of Copper, I think it comes down to the source of the washers, where they are produced, and that is what has seen the change in the alloy used.

Some searching at swapmeets, old hardware and plumbing suppliers, and even weekend home garage sales will quite often turn up NOS/vintage packets of washers (and nuts/bolts, etc) that are of far better quality than new items from even reputable retailers.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

First Peter excellent overhaul, restoration, or preventive maintenance program, definitely setting the Jeep up for another 50 years.

It would be interesting to check the hardness of NOS 1940s brake washers vs New 2020s washers. I suspect that the percentage of recycled copper is making the washers harder to the point where they no longer deform to seal well. At the same time has any one notice that new manufacturer brake cylinders the circular groves the washer are to fit against and deform to seal are not as sharp.

Jumping to old fix for washer and cylinders that doesn't seal. Clean a copper washer then heat and apply solder wipe off excess. I have even use this trick when only had a used washer to finish a brake job.

The suggestion to grab true NOS washers whenever you chance on them is a good one.

Cheers Phil

[Peter Phillips]

Rob, correct, I'm talking out of turn mentioning the wheel cylinders, my bad.

Wayne, unfortunately the "supervisor" usually shows up with a few cold ones causing the tools to lose their momentum, lol. She's actually refinishing a 100 year old rocking chair alongside my project. I'll put up with the dust to spend quality shop time with the boss.

Tony, I don't usually attend too many swap meets or even garage sales which is bad in one way not finding cool/useful stuff and good with not dragging home more projects, lol.

Phil, thanks for the compliment! Funny you mentioned solder as I casually thought of soldering the whole thing together or heating the heck out the washer then installing it. I like the solder idea coating the washer and will try that trick.

[Peter Phillips]

Has anyone else ran into two - single lip seals installed in their t-case output shaft? I read in some of the off road forums that this was quite common in lieu of the felt piece. It didn't affect the surface of the yoke so I'll be going back to OEM unless that's a bad idea?

[SteveJ]

Great job Pete.
With regard to solid copper washers. They do harden but you can anneal them by heating them cherry red then quenching in water. This softens the copper again and they will not leak.

[rob love]

Are you saying that someone stacked two single lip seals in place of the double lip seal normally in that location? Sounds like someone's attempt to cure a problem leak.

Sometimes the problem isn't the seal at all, but rather the oil sneaking through between the shaft and the yoke. There was a rubber washer you could locate underneath the washer and nut retaining the yoke. You can put RTV onto the washer, shaft face, and the face of the yoke to prevent that. And, of course, make sure your breather valve or fording vent lines are clear.

Another thing that can be done to prevent the transfer case from getting overfilled whilst climbing hills, is to replace the transfer case to transmission bearing with a sealed bearing.

[Peter Phillips]

Steve, thanks for the tip for annealing, I'm pulling out all stops to seal this thing up once and for all!

Rob, yes there was a thick single seal and a thinner one in there. It seemed to work ok too. I've been doing a ton of research on sealing up the t-case and one of the tricks as you mentioned, is oil migration between the shaft and yoke; same thing I dealt with on the differentials.

[Peter Phillips]

And the saga continues......tons of work accomplished! I picked up the motor from Edmonton and mated it to the drivetrain.
The rundown on progress:
-checked over the transmission, t-case and pto and installed new seals and gaskets. Oil is in and no leaks so far!
-removed the dual seals on the t-case output shaft, re-mounted a metal dust cap and re-installed the proper seal and felt washer.
-installed all required components inside the z-shaft for the clutch linkage as they were non-existent
-the anti-rattle clips were also missing on the shift levers so they're in place now
-dealt with the bent skid plate was that someone pointed out to me (I honestly thought it was supposed to look like that), so I removed it, re-blasted and it had a date with a 50 ton press. It's nice and straight now and re-painted.
-managed to get the brake lines to stop leaking after annealing the washers, replacing the tee fitting and master cylinder banjo bolt.
-replaced one bad u-joint and put a new (homemade) slip yoke seal and split washer on the rear driveshaft.

The winch is in progress now and once painted and mounted, I can finally say mechanical is done.

Of course I got a run in the front bumper after painting so it's up for a sand and re-paint.

And the good news, the front springs have relaxed enough now that I was able to remove my pre-load tensioners.

Check out the cool knurled piston that came out of the motor! It's going to become a polished up, pen holder.

I'll add another post for more pictures.

Next step is the body...argh!

[Lynn Eades]

Copper should be copper. Has anyone tried annealing the washers?
Copper work hardens pretty quickly and heating them to red hot softens them again.
In theory, should last for ever.

[Peter Phillips]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Copper should be copper. Has anyone tried annealing the washers?
Copper work hardens pretty quickly and heating them to red hot softens them again.
In theory, should last for ever.

Actually I did follow advice and annealed the new washers with success. Lots of instances on the inter-web around the same issues....you'd think it wouldn't be an issue but...

[Grant Bowker]

There are internet claims the same can be done with aluminum sealing washers (as used on BMW motorcycles and other applications) that have work hardened .

[Peter Phillips]

Took advantage of the nice weather to power wash and degrease the jeep tub in preparation for body and paint. What I didn't expect is for it to fall on my right foot. Luckily it was a glancing blow and not the full weight which I guess is around 300#. I don't think anything is broken as I can move around with minor discomfort, it's just swollen, even more this morning. I still might get an x-ray today to please the wife as my ears are bleeding from the nagging
And for the record there is only minor damage to the one tab under the tub that attaches to the frame, easy fix...tough old things they are!