Valcartier Sherman

[Michael R.]

David:

you got me. I should have known better.


The spring loaded “turret cradle lock” showing above and centred on the main gun. The turret traverse lock handle is usually painted red: part time users with age onset memory loss beware. The hydraulic powered turret traverse is not forgiving.

[Ed Storey]

Perhaps the M1919A4 MGs were not fitted that often.

M4A2E8 Sherman.jpg

[David Herbert]

I would doubt that Shermans would go into action without their .30s as they were very necessary for suppressing attacks from infantry.

I have not seen the shelf before that is fitted in front of the driver's hatch in the photo above. It is certainly not factory. I am thinking that it is too late to be for anti gas paint so possibly the driver's way to avoid water being pushed up the glassis plate and into his hatch when ploughing through deep water.

I suspect that that photo was taken on a training exercise in Canada well post war so no need for MGs.

David

[James P]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

I would doubt that Shermans would go into action without their .30s as they were very necessary for suppressing attacks from infantry.

I have not seen the shelf before that is fitted in front of the driver's hatch in the photo above. It is certainly not factory. I am thinking that it is too late to be for anti gas paint so possibly the driver's way to avoid water being pushed up the glassis plate and into his hatch when ploughing through deep water.

I suspect that that photo was taken on a training exercise in Canada well post war so no need for MGs.

David

Weapons on the turret top, C1 SMG and a 1919 that looks fitted with a cone shaped BFA atop a tripod say ex somewhere in Canada.

[Ed Storey]

I believe the M4A2E8 Shermans were only used in Canada by the Reserves. Here is another photo of a tank minus the M1919A4 MGs.

Sherman [9] copy.jpg

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

I believe the M4A2E8 Shermans were only used in Canada by the Reserves. Here is another photo of a tank minus the M1919A4 MGs.

Maybe they ran out of rope to tie the 1919A4 on the turret?

Ed, why do you believe only the CF Reserve used the M4A2E8’s?

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

Maybe they ran out of rope to tie the 1919A4 on the turret?

Ed, why do you believe only the CF Reserve used the M4A2E8’s?

I was under the impression that the Regular Force used the Centurion with the Reserves getting the Shermans. As well, the M4A2E8s never served outside of Canada so every photograph should show them being used in Canada. Now I can see the Regular Force using the M4A2E8 Shermans in Canada prior to the introduction of the Centurion and would enjoying seeing an image from that time period as everything I have was taken after 1955.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by James P

Weapons on the turret top, C1 SMG and a 1919 that looks fitted with a cone shaped BFA atop a tripod say ex somewhere in Canada.

Throw in 58 pattern webbing, a beret with an RCAC cap badge, coveralls with a leather name fob pinned on and two Mk5 Centurions. Also the tactical call signs white washed on the turret. I would guess Camp Borden and the RCAC School. Maybe a photo of young officers in training?

PS: The cone on the muzzle of the machine gun was not the BFA. It was a part of what kept the barrel air-cooling shield secure to the gun.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

PS: The cone on the muzzle of the machine gun was not the BFA. It was a part of what kept the barrel air-cooling shield secure to the gun.
Cheers,
Dan.

I believe James was correct: it is the BFA replacement of the Ball round muzzle attachment. Normally painted yellow, similar to other Canadian issue small arms BFA’s, it was used with a cartridge stop (discriminator) to prevent a Ball round being introduced but also to reduce the receiver space due to the reduced length of the 30-06 Blank cartridge.

Do I see a small portion of the C1 SMG BFA showing?




Ed: I suggest these are Reg Force troopers ... a point towards Reg Force use of the M4A2E8.

[rob love]

I concur it is a BFA on the M1919. The hole is way too small for a 30 cal or 7.62 barrel bearing for live fire. As well, if you blow the photo up a little you can see the radial gas ports at the base of the BFA along with the front wrenching feature. I have never seen a barrel bearing on a M1919 that looks like this one for anything but blank fire.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

I believe James was correct: it is the BFA replacement of the Ball round muzzle attachment. Normally painted yellow, similar to other Canadian issue small arms BFA’s, it was used with a cartridge stop (discriminator) to prevent a Ball round being introduced but also to reduce the receiver space due to the reduced length of the 30-06 Blank cartridge.

Do I see a small portion of the C1 SMG BFA showing?




Ed: I suggest these are Reg Force troopers ... a point towards Reg Force use of the M4A2E8.

Was the Regular Force still using Shermans in 1967, which is when the photograph was taken.

[James P]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

Throw in 58 pattern webbing, a beret with an RCAC cap badge, coveralls with a leather name fob pinned on and two Mk5 Centurions. Also the tactical call signs white washed on the turret. I would guess Camp Borden and the RCAC School. Maybe a photo of young officers in training?

PS: The cone on the muzzle of the machine gun was not the BFA. It was a part of what kept the barrel air-cooling shield secure to the gun.

Cheers,
Dan.

Hmmm.......I am sitting here with one each 1919 BFA, 1919 Front barrel bushing and recoil boaster and 1919 Front barrel bushing/recoil boaster W/flash hider (cone) and still see just a 1919 ground mounted with a BFA mounted, Maybe I am just missing something or not looking at the same pic.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

Throw in 58 pattern webbing, a beret with an RCAC cap badge, coveralls with a leather name fob pinned on and two Mk5 Centurions. Also the tactical call signs white washed on the turret. I would guess Camp Borden and the RCAC School. Maybe a photo of young officers in training?

PS: The cone on the muzzle of the machine gun was not the BFA. It was a part of what kept the barrel air-cooling shield secure to the gun.

Cheers,
Dan.

Canadian Army Webbing Patterns were as follows 1908 (Canadian), 1908, 1913, 1925, 1937, 1951, 1964, and 1982 Pattern. 1958 Pattern was British and not adapted by Canada.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

Canadian Army Webbing Patterns were as follows 1908 (Canadian), 1908, 1913, 1925, 1937, 1951, 1964, and 1982 Pattern. 1958 Pattern was British and not adapted by Canada.

You're right Ed. I was referring to the 51 pattern. I guess I spend too much time on British Army sites.

[Darrell Zinck]

Originally Posted by James P

Weapons on the turret top, C1 SMG and a 1919 that looks fitted with a cone shaped BFA atop a tripod say ex somewhere in Canada.

Hi

I meant to get back to this thread/photo but a recent gun camp reminded me.

I do not think that there is a BFA on the M1919A4 (or the SMG) simply because of the flag on the rear Sherman. That is the Range safety Officer's vehicle that follows any live fire movement on Armoured vehicle ranges. To this day.

To have BFAs on a live fire range................I dunno. Were we that stupid back then?

Fotr the SMG, I also do not think it is a BFA due to the position indicated is too far back on the body of the weapon. Looks like the clip for the sling. I loved my "Small Metal Gun".

http://mpmuseum.org/smgc1.html

regard
Darrell

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

... (paraphrased)
I have not seen the shelf before that is fitted in front of the driver's hatch in the photo above. It is certainly not factory. I am thinking that it is too late to be for anti gas paint so possibly the driver's way to avoid water being pushed up the glassis plate and into his hatch when ploughing through deep water.
David

While not all of the Canadian used M4’s from the former Russian Lend Lease order were subsequently fitted in Canada with the extension plate welded in front of the driver hatch: it is a godsend.

Not only for an extended place to step, but it helps to catch debris that migrates off the track while under way. I am convinced without a supporting (pun) CFTO to verify the intent, the shelf is intended as a step. The absence of one on the co-driver side suggests there was little concern about getting a face full of whatever.

Slips and falls off the M4, as well as any other armour, are not encouraged. There is a core (Corps ?) group who do not need to be reminded.