Aussie WW2 staff cars

[Lang]

Got the second one home today.

[Matt Austin]

Absolutely fantastic, well done Lang!

Of course, my 1940 Pontiac came after I sat on my 1940 Chev for the last five years, and my wife suggested I buy a runner rather than depending upon my almost-nonexistent mechanical skills! I did so, being very happy with the Pontiac, but disappointed that it doesn't have military history.

So Lang, I hope you don't mind if I vicariously live out my staff car dreams through your posts!

Cheers,
Matt

[Lang]

Thanks Matt

I think you are going well with the Pontiac. I would not be too precious about the staff car history. The only thing that makes them special is the colour (and as I found out the black ones were used by the military though whether impressed, borrowed or on strength I have no idea).

I was trying to get some history from GM and GMH sites and from what I can see the black one has a normal non-military set of codes on the data plates. This does not mean it was never used by the military but leans toward initial civilian ownership whether impressed later or not.

The green one has a government delivery code but this could be for any department including the services so no proof there. I don't really want to be trawling through the AWM records searching for it. It looks to have a sand colour as the base coat on the firewall but GMH had a similar colour on offer for general sale.

Whatever, I am going to choose the best of them, mix and match (not motors) to get the best and sell the other one. If the black one wins it will stay black and if the green one wins it will probably have its American markings removed and receive Australian citizenship.

lang

[Mike Cecil]

An interesting but in some ways complicated subject, for which I can provide no comprehensive answers due to the lack of surviving detailed records. So in alphabetical order from the surviving records I have had access to, makes of 'Cars, SS' and 'Cars DS' used across all three services:

Alvis, Austin, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, De Soto, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, Hillman, Hudson, Morris, Nash, Oldsmobile, Opel, Packard, Plymouth, Pontiac, Renault, Rolls Royce, Studebaker, Triumph, Vauxhall, Willys.


The dominant types were Ford (965 minimum not including MC & CMP 6-seaters) and Chev (2,082 minimum not including MC & CMP six-seaters). Total includes several left hand drive Buick, Chev and Ford sedans purchased in the Middle East after the losses in Greece.


There were also several makes for which there has been no registration information located, but which appear in holdings and disposals lists: Bantam, Citroen, Peogot, Reo and Wolseley.



In addition, there was an unknown number of sedan cars supplied to the USASOS and USN which were in use by US Forces on Australian roads. Many of these were returned for credit to the RLL account and disposed of by the CDC. These included Austin, Morris, Standard, Chev, De Soto, Hudson, Nash, Plymouth, Pontiac, Studebaker.



Mike

[Lang]

There you go Matt.

From Mike's info you can definitely take your Pontiac to a military show because it certainly was owned by the Army. Impressed by the Army, Impressed by US Army, loaned to the army, carried an Army officer or was seen by an Army officer during the war.

As I said, unlike others, I am not precious about the history of a particular vehicle. We have all seen vehicles at shows with photos and "recorded" history. General Macarthur has 476 personal cars that he drove every day. Patten, Montgomery and numerous other generals had vast personal fleets which can be seen at any show in USA or Europe.

The fact you have saved an original type from the period is a credit to you in this day of chopped, lowered and re-engined historic vehicles. The heavier truck people have no trouble because the hotrodders are not too interested but light trucks and cars are becoming precious.

Matt, just to put everything in one place here is your stuff on Chevs from 6 years ago.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23897

Lang

[Mike K]

The RAAF seem to have preferred Dodge staff cars , late VMVC member Neil Wain restored a ex RAAF 41 Dodge sedan

CAIRNS, QLD. 1943-08-26. DRIVERS OF THE WOMEN'S NATIONAL EMERGENCY LEGION, POLISHING THEIR VEHICLES BEFORE STARTING THEIR SHIFT, WORKING FOR THE UNITED STATES FORCES IN THIS AREA. LEFT TO RIGHT:- DRIVER (DVR) N. ERSKINE; DVR D. DUPAIN; DVR T. LAWSON; DVR S. MIDGEY; DVR H. ARMSTRONG.


Darwin, NT. c. 1944. An informal group standing beside their motor vehicle, RAAF 202505, waiting to greet Lady Wakehurst on her arrival for a visit to a RAAF Medical Receiving Station. Left to right: Air Commodore A. M. Charlesworth AFC, Air Officer Commanding North-West Area; 501129 Matron C. J. McRae of Glen Innes, NSW, Principal Nursing Officer; Wing Commander V. E. Knight, Principal Medical Officer; 251203 Wing Commander R. W. D. Fisher of Elwood, Vic, Commanding Officer of the station.

[David Dunlop]

Hello Mike.

In your first photo, Post #27, the cars all seem to have a long triangular ‘badge’ at the front right edge of the bonnet. Any idea what that might be?

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lang

I would not be too precious about the staff car history. The only thing that makes them special is the colour (and as I found out the black ones were used by the military though whether impressed, borrowed or on strength I have no idea).

I was trying to get some history from GM and GMH sites and from what I can see the black one has a normal non-military set of codes on the data plates. This does not mean it was never used by the military but leans toward initial civilian ownership whether impressed later or not.

The green one has a government delivery code but this could be for any department including the services so no proof there. I don't really want to be trawling through the AWM records searching for it. It looks to have a sand colour as the base coat on the firewall but GMH had a similar colour on offer for general sale.

Indeed there is a fine line between Conventional and Modified Conventional Pattern Vehicles. Conventional vehicles were just that, with just light alterations from a civilian vehicle like matt olive drab paint, non-chromed trim and some military fitments like black-out lighting. This could vary from contract to contract, depending on where the vehicle was going to put to use. Especially for home front use, these "plain jane" civilian vehicles could be painted in "any colour you like, as long as it is black" as Henry Ford put it.

See this RNZAF Ford Staff Car in the Ford Canada Conventional and Modified Vehicles thread:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

RNZAF 1942 Ford Fordor Staff Car. Location: Fiji.

RHD, black, painted grille and trim - looks like the cheapest no-frills version from the catalog. Reportedly, ten (10) examples of the 1942 Ford V8 Fordor were exported to New Zealand during the Second World War.

Note the census number "MT2230" on the bonnet and license plate "5209" on the front bumper which has retained it's chrome.

RNZAF 42 Ford Staff Car, Fiji. Air Force Museum of New Zealand Photo.jpg
Photo courtesy of Air Force Museum of New Zealand

[Mike K]

Laurie Wright was a young teenager in Sydney during the war and he observed the colours of the military vehicles at the time.

Source: http://anzacsteel.hobbyvista.com/oth...siecamlw_1.htm

'Although a bit of an aside from camouflage, but was shown about the same respect, the colour of General Officers’ cars is worth a quick look. According to the “good book”, cars of General Officers were to be coloured black and carry a Commonwealth number plate front and rear. You won’t find many that complied with this instruction, in colour or number plate. Most in fact clung to their AIF plates, and cars were anything from white to grey to camouflaged to two-tone.'


And

'It is obvious that despite the best intentions of those who brought out vehicle camouflage diagrams even as late as 1944, that for most people, camouflage painting was as dead as the Dodo. If it was on it stayed on until the vehicle was repainted. If it wasn’t camouflaged nobody cared. It was common by that time in Sydney to see cars and 12-cwt utilities with a chrome grille, front bumper and trim. It can be seen in photographs, even on some vehicles in New Guinea.'

[Lang]

Thank you Mike for confirmation of black staff cars.

I now have proof of mine in service because I went out and closely inspected the car and discover the initials TB carved with a pocket knife into the rear side window surround. Obviously General Sir Thomas Blamey (Chief of the Australian Military Forces in WW2) was bored being driven to yet another inspection or parade early in the war before he got a more up market staff car.

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

"According to the “good book”, cars of General Officers were to be coloured black and carry a Commonwealth number plate front and rear."

I wonder what 'good book' the late Mr Wright was referring to.

Ministerial cars ie the Commonwealth Govt fleet for senior govt and Departmental heads, were black with C plates. I don't remember seeing any wartime instruction that cars assigned to senior officers were to be black, but I'd certainly be interested to see 'the good book' to correct/change my understanding of that.

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lang

Thank you Mike for confirmation of black staff cars.

I now have proof of mine in service because I went out and closely inspected the car and discover the initials TB carved with a pocket knife into the rear side window surround. Obviously General Sir Thomas Blamey (Chief of the Australian Military Forces in WW2) was bored being driven to yet another inspection or parade early in the war before he got a more up market staff car.

Lang

Hi Lang,
Looks like you have struck lucky with that car and got some provenance of a famous user of it !