25 pounder wood seat

[rob love]

If anyone has an original 25 pounder seat, could they tell me how thick the wood is? I am going to guess that it is 11" round, the same as the metal base underneath, but perhaps that should be confirmed as well.

[Phillip]

Hi Rob, mine is an original , I will measure for you.

[rob love]

Thanks Phillip, looking forward to it.

[Mark Cornwell]

I have the same problem with mine. The seat looks like a giant cake!

[rob love]

Kind of what I don't want. They have some nice laminated pine at home depot for a decent price, but it is 3/4 thick. I think that will be too thin and sandwiching it will end up 1-1/2 thick which might be too much.
I thought of buying a couple wood barstools and using the tops off them.

They are in stock at Dirk Leegwaters site, but between the Euro exchange and the postage, they are a little too rich for my poor blood.

[Ed Storey]

Does this image from the Identification List for Ordnance, Q.F. 25-Pr., C Mk. II on Carriage, 25-Pr., C Mk. I also Carrier Dial Sight, C No. 18, Mk. I - 1943 help?

[rob love]

Well it does show that the seat overlaps the metal base, so it is likely pretty close to 12" diameter. It does not solve the unknown of the thickness.
I note the dozens of screws holding the wood to the base in your photos Ed. My manual does not specify the length nor even list them. Does yours?

[Wayne Henderson]

I have seen two styles of seat bases here in Australia, we copied the British gun and made it better.
One base is the full width of the wood seat and the other is smaller and is recessed flush into the wood seat.

Photo is of a reproduction seat, incorrect but I will fix that in the future when the custodians throw money at me.

[rob love]

I wonder if the metal plate is smaller than the 11" on mine.

We also copied the British gun and made lots of Canadian substitutions and manufacturing changes.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by rob love

Well it does show that the seat overlaps the metal base, so it is likely pretty close to 12" diameter. It does not solve the unknown of the thickness.
I note the dozens of screws holding the wood to the base in your photos Ed. My manual does not specify the length nor even list them. Does yours?

Unfortunately nothing on the screws or the seat thickness.

[rob love]

Phillip emailed me the measurements of his seat: 11-3/4 round and 7/8 thick for those that want to know.

Ed: Your scan shows around 23 screws. My base only has the inner circle of screws that I am able to identify, so there may be some variance on the designs.

[Phillip]

And here it is, screws are a slotted round head wood screw. Unsure of the timber, I would be guessing if I said it was some sort of coachwood.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by rob love

Phillip emailed me the measurements of his seat: 11-3/4 round and 7/8 thick for those that want to know.

Ed: Your scan shows around 23 screws. My base only has the inner circle of screws that I am able to identify, so there may be some variance on the designs.

What, a variation on a wartime military contract that potentially uses multiple suppliers for the same item!? hehehe Next your going to suggest that the howitzer used to illustrate the manual was selected at random. Well, at least you can save money on screws with the version you have.

The next time I run across a 25-Pdr I am planning on counting the seat screws.

[rob love]

Ed: I have no doubt you will.

The British did not seem to mind wasting metal or machining time. I had to make up the handle for the seat (well made two of them actually). The major diameter of the long side is around .6 inch tapering to around .5". The threaded side is around .630. But the washer in the center is 1", and is not a separate item but rather they started with a piece of 1" roundstock and started turning it from there. The little stubs for the firing platform legs are the same.....I have to start with 1.5" round and most of it is going to be .750 diameter.

You would have thought they were winning the war when they made these items. Well made? Yes. But economical?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Phillip

And here it is, screws are a slotted round head wood screw. Unsure of the timber, I would be guessing if I said it was some sort of coachwood.

I was going to go with pine. I have 20 or 30 years left on this planet if I am lucky, and I have no plans of storing this gun outside. But if it is a hardwood, then I guess there is no choice. I think I have some ash planks out in the yard.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by rob love

I was going to go with pine. I have 20 or 30 years left on this planet if I am lucky, and I have no plans of storing this gun outside. But if it is a hardwood, then I guess there is no choice. I think I have some ash planks out in the yard.

Many restorers think mostly hardwood was used, but many non-structural wooden parts were made from softwood. For a seat I reckon you would be good using pine.

See the link to HMVF below to make an informed decision:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

For Canadian and British wooden bodies, indeed. Attached is a drawing for the Canadian 2H1 15-cwt body as fitted to CMP trucks. The construction of these bodies were based on the British design.

Note the thicknesses of the boards and the types of wood used in the construction of these bodies.

The British even published an Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Regulation (EMER) for wood specifying the various types of timber to use on vehicles - see HMVF forum: Timber for old MV's

[Mike Cecil]

I suspect different places, different timber. Pine was not common in Australia before WW2, whereas the local native species were available and abundant. The stocks on .303 rifles made in Australia used, from memory, any of three different native species rather than Walnut.

Aust production was most probably a native hardwood, while in Canada, other species like pine or spruce or maple were probably the most available?

Mike

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I suspect different places, different timber. Pine was not common in Australia before WW2, whereas the local native species were available and abundant. The stocks on .303 rifles made in Australia used, from memory, any of three different native species rather than Walnut.

Mike

Lithgow-made .303s used a total of 9 species of timber, 1 was NZ Birch, the other 8 were Native Australian species; NO British or indeed any Northern Hemisphere timber species were used at Lithgow.

I wood think that any timber used in Australian-made 25Pdrs or vehicle bodies would also be exclusively native species.

[Tony Smith]

More timbers:

[Mike Cecil]

Thanks Tony, nine it is.

My reference to Walnut was, of course, to the northern hemisphere species ( Juglans sp.), not Qld walnut (Endiandra palmerstonii).

Like the Canadians, the Australian-manufactured 25-pdr adapted local resources and manufacturing techniques to suit. While most parts were interchangeable, differences did lead to logistics difficulties in the supply of spare parts in some cases. For example, the packings within the Australian buffer & recuperator were different to British production, and not interchangeable.

There are a small number of timber items on or included with a 25-pdr (seat, line mounting block, rammer, oil-can mounting block, parts and tools boxes) but I've not seen specifications which included the type of timber to be used in manufacture.

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

I suspect different places, different timber. Pine was not common in Australia before WW2, whereas the local native species were available and abundant. The stocks on .303 rifles made in Australia used, from memory, any of three different native species rather than Walnut.

Aust production was most probably a native hardwood, while in Canada, other species like pine or spruce or maple were probably the most available?

Indeed local sources were used where possible. See the attached table from the EMER which specifies the "timbers for vehicle bodywork and other uses": the hard woods available in United Kingdom differed from those in Persia & Iraq, for example.