Chevrolet 1533X2 30cwt LRDG truck mini articles

[Charlie Down]

Hi
I've been researching these trucks for about 5 years now, collecting information from various sources including here. Its more historical and modelling than mechanical so bear that in mind please!

The Chevrolet 1533X2 30cwt LRDG truck had a flat face cowl on which a straight dashboard was fixed. This has been an area of contention for a few years, and having spent some time researching the details I am as confident as I can be of it's accuracy. The drawing is mine and not to scale. I don't have a truck on my drive to get measurements, so it's the best I can do and shows a general arrangement of the dashboard. There are 2 features I am not sure of on the dash board and any help identifying them would be great. I have included a diagram of a standard dash for comparative purposes and to confirm item identities. There are only partial views of the dash board that I have or know of in existence. The CMP grab handle wasn't commonly fitted, or, as it can be folded, maybe more common on the trucks but not visible behind the folded canvas door. The stencilling on the glove box maybe instructions for the PTO driven air compressor, or maybe some other factory applied Chevrolet information/data. Any information on the contents of the data decal would be great. Does anyone know whether the temperature gauge would be supplied by Canada to British forces in Centigrade or Fahrenheit?
This information comes from a company that does re-production gauge faces online, Maple Leaf Up Forum and various other sites including the LRDGPS forum.

[Charlie Down]

When I first started looking for information on Chevrolet trucks, I read posts discussing various aspects. One thing that I found confusing was the term flat faced cowl on the trucks, normally from those who are trying to, or have built a replica. I eventually worked it out by myself, but thought a quick post might help those not sure of it either.
The standard cowl was designed to incorporate an angled 2 piece hinged windscreen to be fitted to the hard top cab. this meant the dashboard and the bonnet (hood) was shaped in a shallow v to accommodate this. It also meant that the dash had a different rounded civilian profile to it with a specific instrument cluster.
The LRDG didn't need the cab and the standard Chevrolet model for this was a flat face cowl, which was flat vertically at the door pillar and across the dash. This allowed it to have a straight 'Jeep' style folding windscreen which was a standard fit on the LRDG batch. (These windscreens were frequently removed and replaced with Aero screens, but you often see the original jeep windscreen mounts on the front edges of the wooden dash surround.) This cowl also had a specific set of instruments. The following annotated drawings are from the 1941 Chevrolet catalogue, and photos from Maple Leaf up Forum and various internet sites I no longer remember!

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Charlie Down

Does anyone know whether the temperature gauge would be supplied by Canada to British forces in Centigrade or Fahrenheit?

I would be extremely surprised if the temperature gauge (and speedometer) were originally anything except Imperial measure, i.e. Fahrenheit, MPH etc. but I do say this without reference to period documentation. Imperial measure when sent to the Empire unless special ordered for a particular purpose would be what I would expect.

[Paul Singleton]

The flat face cowl trucks were built for commercial body builders. Most common are school buses and armoured cars used to transport money, not the military type. I would think that during war time when local bodies were installed over seas the flat face cowl trucks were likely faster to produce than a complete truck.
I haven’t seen metric gauges in British wartime vehicles, but a friend of mine did have a 1946 Ford sedan with a metric speedometer. The car was originally sold in Argentina.

[Charlie Down]

Thanks Grant and Paul. The reproduction gauge decals were from an US retailer, not Canada, so was curious as to what would actually be seen on the temperature gauge in North African in 1942.

[Mike K]

Interesting they used the 1939 truck round instruments, I think these same round instruments were also used in earlier Chevy passenger cars 1937 ? or around there. I have a 1939 1 Ton truck wreck with these round instruments fitted , I must remove them as they are probably weathered by now or maybe beyond help.

NOS part https://www.ebay.com/itm/1936-1937-1...UAAOSwbeBdSxrA

[Tony Smith]

While we're Ebaying, here's a collection of all the gauges:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-38-OEM....c100005.m1851

Odd that the Temp gauge stops at 212 F. Don't Chevs boil in the Desert?

[Grant Bowker]

It sounds like the gauge was designed for a non-pressurized cooling system that used plain water as the coolant. That system woild boil at 212 or less, depending how high an altitude you are at. In such a system, if you saw the gauge approach 212 you would know that you were getting close to boil-over and should take immediate actions to avoid losing your water (in a desert where it might not be easy to replace.....)

[David Dunlop]

Aren’t most automotive gauges serving this function marked ‘TEMP’? I cannot recall ever seeing an automotive gauge set up like this before. As Grant suggests, it certainly draws ones attention to the importance of the commodity in a desert environment.

David

[Charlie Down]

Major Ralph Bagnold, pre-war desert explorer and creator of the LRDG, used condenser cans on the side of the truck to recycle steam/ boiling water. Copied on SAS jeeps and incorporated into later designs of military and postwar civilian vehicles.
Lovely photos of the gauges, thank you for posting them.

[Bob Carriere]

Thanks Charles for the clear distinction of the round versus flat gauges.

I have a 1940 Chev 1 ton with the rectangular gauge cluster ..... and Philippe J. has a 1939 Chev one ton with round gauges..... ........ not sure if his instrument cluster is on a flat panel or a curved dash.

Philippe can you shed some light.

According to what I have read Major B. had access to 38 or 39 seperate vehicles some unsold from dealers some from GM...... From the pictures I have seen of the early handmade conversions, the curved windshield was cut at about 8 inches and the remaining post used to mount various machine guns........ I assumed that the good Major converted some flat dash models and some curved dash models to suit is needs.....and some were short wheel based of possible 3/4 ton ratings......

However, I think it is safe to assume that all Windsor LRDG produced had the flat dash/cowl with the square windshield frame......... I have never seen a factory picture of the Canadian Made LRDG with a factory made water condensation can. By the way GM did sell, at the dealership, a skinny water condensation can, grey in color, to be mounted on the firewall under the hood....may have started in the late 1937 era. They do come up on Ebay at nearly $400 when NOS.......

Have you seen the article in a EU magazine, about 5 years ago, about the trial and tribulation of a French collector who built an early LRDG from parts of 3 or 4 other Chevs of the period.....? very worth while reading.....

Cheers


Water was such a rare commodity that the true LRDG troops never shaved (or washed ) and dressed very differently for the occasion....unless back in Cairo where proper military dress and clean face was the "rigueur".......

[Charlie Down]

My Updated LRDG 1533X2 dash information page.
Thank you everyone for helping out with the outstanding information. Nice to have all the information on one page.

[Philippe Jeanneau]

Those are the exact gauges on my 39 (1.5 ton) Chevrolet truck... The instrument panel is flat... Is that considered a (FFC) or flat face cowl?

[Charlie Down]

Hi Philippe, Your truck doesn't have a Flat face Cowl. It has a cab with a split window windscreen which is angled, not flat. The FFC was designed so that buyers could fit their own cab, or not. The front frame of the door is angled forward, whereas a FFC would be vertical. Hope that helps.

[lynx42]

The LRDG truck in the Imperial War Museum has the later style gauges in a rounded dash.

Regards Rick.



Stolen off the web.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

As can be seen in the Chevrolet catalogue “Flat face” means the vertical part of the cowl is flat with A-pillars being perpendicular to the chassis. This gave body builders all the freedom they needed to build bespoke cabs and bodies. So it doesn’t refer to the cowl vent area to be flat (alone).

So the buyer ordered a chassis/cowl and then contracted a body builder. Especially in Asia even today truck builders still make chassis/cowls, for outside contractors to build a body.

[Paul Singleton]

This screenshot is from the GM heritage site. It’s from the 1950 Chevrolet manual and it shows the flat face cowl and a windshield cowl, just to add more confusion to this thread! I hadn’t heard of, or seen a “windshield “ cowl.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Paul Singleton

This screenshot is from the GM heritage site. It’s from the 1950 Chevrolet manual and it shows .... a windshield cowl, just to add more confusion to this thread! I hadn’t heard of, or seen a “windshield “ cowl.

Reasonably common on a variety of rated chassis.

[Bob Carriere]

The Imperial Museum LRDG looks like a 1940 model and has a LEFT HAND drive set up!!!!!!!...... obviously one of the Major's converted "Hot Rod"...... and the wheel base is shorter than the expected 133 inches.......... he used what he had available.......

Philippe's truck is unusual in having the sheet metal of a 1940 and the dash of a 39 and his reg. tag shows a 1939 VC model......... I suspect that model year and sales date were not that critical back then.......... today you could buy a 2021 truck made in September of 2020....... and looks like a 2021.....

What else have we missed.....?

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

The Imperial Museum LRDG looks like a 1940 model and has a LEFT HAND drive set up!!!!!!!...... obviously one of the Major's converted "Hot Rod"...... and the wheel base is shorter than the expected 133 inches.......... he used what he had available..

Bob, All the original Long Range Desert Patrol vehicles were sourced locally in Egypt and were all left hand drive.

Regards Rick.

[Paul Singleton]

Philippe's truck is unusual in having the sheet metal of a 1940 and the dash of a 39 and his reg. tag shows a 1939 VC model......... I suspect that model year and sales date were not that critical back then.......... today you could buy a 2021 truck made in September of 2020....... and looks like a 2021.....

What else have we missed.....?

Bob, when I was still working at the city I did a pre-delivery inspection on a 2008 Ford F-250. The manufacture date was February 2007 and we received the truck in March 2007! The truck was registered as 2008 and the owner’s manual had “2008” on the cover. This was the earliest new model delivery that I had seen.
Paul

[Bob Carriere]

....not having to worry about switching the steering mechanism makes it a much simpler project.

Bob C.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Not a 1533X2, but a nice shot of the type of sand channel they were fitted with:

“General Auchinleck, Commander in Chief of the Middle East Forces, talks with men of New Zealand patrol during inspection of the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG) in Cairo. Photograph taken on 5 October 1941 by an official photographer.”
Source: National Library New Zealand