2 Mystery headgear seeking identification?

[derk derin]

Hi All,
I have in my collection a couple headgear that I have no idea what era or use they had with what helmet (or otherwise).
Does anybody know the history of either of them?
Thanks,Derk

[derk derin]

The other one;

[derk derin]

The inside photo's of both;

[derk derin]

As I was posting pictures of the mesh headgear with the button snaps, it jogged my memory of another mystery piece of headgear I have sitting in the collection that nobody seems to know about. It's supposedly part of an Armoured corps helmet, C broad arrow marked, part of a late war design, with 3 snaps to secure it to something?

[derk derin]

That's what got me thinking of the placements of the snap buttons of the mesh headgear so I tried fitting the 2 together and;

[derk derin]

The snap buttons seem to line up and the 2 leather straps in the back of the mesh headgear even line up with securing the pad to the headgear.
It looks oddball but seems to fit together.
What do you think? Am I onto something here?
Derk

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Wow, amazing, never seen anything like this.

Makes you think where the Russians got their inspiration for tanker headgear - or was it the other way round?

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

The pads at the ears are for headsets. I would try 19 set ones and if they fit these do look like tank helmets. Like Hanno I've never seen anything like them so have to wonder if they are trial or prototype. With all the padding yet light weigh material they were obviously meant for heads that got rattled around a lot in confined spaces (say, like tanks) and the construction would do well in hot climates. So maybe designed for the Pacific Force that never was sent?

[rob love]

Interesting, but there has to be more. There is nothing to prevent the forehead from being struck. That is, after all, where the "zipperheads" got their nickname from.

Since the two parts have come from the same source, we'll have to keep an eye out in spring for whatever goes onto those forward snaps and those leather straps.

Roger Lucy would no doubt be interested in what you have found up to now.

[James P]

That "Thousand Yard Stare" is spooky.

[derk derin]

I asked Gord Crossley from the Fort Garry Horse museum if he has any information on the black pad and the only reference he could find on it was on this website;
https://milart.blog/2013/09/07/canad...-tank-helmets/
Roger Lucy wrote the article so I’m sure he would find it interesting! Hopefully we will hear from him.
If you think the mannequin head has a spooky stare you should see the picture of ME wearing it. I sent it to Rob, see if he’ll post it?
Derk

[rob love]

Asked and done.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by rob love

Asked and done.

I think that's a tropical aircrew helmet. The rubber earcups take individual earpieces and the snap fasteners on either side of the face are for an oxygen mask.

Aertex or equivalent fabric to allow airflow/evaporative cooling.

Standard pilot goggles or a 'bone dome' with visor to complete the outfit?

Chris.

[gcrossley]

The mesh helmet is the RCAF version of the RAF Type E flying helmet. The snaps on the cheeks are to fit the oxygen mask. The black padded piece must be for something else.

[David Dunlop]

Hi Derk.

Take a closeup look at the 1945 Winter Helmet again in Roger’s article.

To me, the profile of the upper rear outline matches that of the set of pads you have posted pictures of above.

It strikes me, you may have two thirds of one of these helmets. First is the cloth liner that fits snug to the head, holds the headset, and most importantly, breathes to prevent sweat from running down ones head and freezing.

Next the padding clips onto the liner, and finally, a leather, outer cover would pull down over the first two items and clip in place with the remaining snaps at the lower from of the liner. The leather outer cover comes down low enough over the neck area to prevent a chill and would probably overlap the tanker suit with its collar up. It would also come down over the headset cables to prevent them snagging on anything inside the tank. The leather cover would also form a dead air gap over the liner and pads, helping to add insulation by creating a pocket of warm air.

David

[derk derin]

Thanks to Gord Crossley for properly identifying the mystery. It is in fact an E Type Canadian flying helmet. Found an image of one on the internet once I knew what to look for!
Great, now I need an airplane to go with the helmet.
Rob, thanks for posting the “decent” photo of me wearing the helmet, I have everyone laughing at the other one of me!

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

So it's exchanging the Ford Ambulance for a Spitfire now is it?

[derk derin]

That’s how this hobby works. Your happy with one vehicle then a person finds a $10.00 helmet, the next thing you know your looking for an aircraft!
Don’t believe me? Ask Rob!
Derk

[David Dunlop]

So the second helmet is probably RCAF as well then?

You need to take up scuba diving now, Derk.

David

[rob love]

Originally Posted by derk derin

That’s how this hobby works. Your happy with one vehicle then a person finds a $10.00 helmet, the next thing you know your looking for an aircraft!
Don’t believe me? Ask Rob!
Derk

Ah, how history repeats itself. And how one is never cured of the OCD...it just goes into remission just to surface again.


A quote from a post of Derk's a few years ago: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...4&postcount=32

Quote from Rob Love: Careful Derk.....it is little things like this wrench set that will cause an obsessive compulsive guy like you to go acquire an airplane.



Response form Derk:

The old Derk would have gone out to find an aircraft and bring it home to go with the wrench but I am cured now. My focus on life right now is to rebuild a new kitchen for the wife!
Derk

For the complete saga, go to this thread for a blast from the past: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ighlight=cured


Derk: I actually saw an ad on one of the online sites for an RCAF aircraft hulk a few days ago that was on someones farmsite. I was going to post it for you, but then I would feel guilty (for about 3 seconds). This would be like the old days when we propelled each other to new levels of insanity. I was the married one, so would get the divorce....you were the single guy so would just keep merrily trudging along.

[rob love]

Here you go Derk....not far from me. You can grab one of those 19 sets from my shelf while you are out here. You know, one of those radios that you "don't need anymore". (Quote from about 5 years ago but now apparently rescinded).

I am going to guess it is the remnants of a mosquito, but only because of the wooden construction inside. I remember one of my cadet officers telling us about how the moths would eat the glue that held them together. That was back in the days when a lot of the cadet officers were ex-RCAF.

https://ebrandon.ca/ItemView.aspx?it...6481&cat_id=68

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by rob love

I am going to guess it is the remnants of a mosquito, but only because of the wooden construction inside. I remember one of my cadet officers telling us about how the moths woudl eat the glue that held them together. That was back in the days when a lot of the cadet officers were ex-RCAF.
https://ebrandon.ca/ItemView.aspx?it...6481&cat_id=68

Someone wants their property cleaned up. I'd say go and grab it before it gets scrapped

We can sort out what it is later. It's not a Mosquito, and not a Bristol (Fairchild) Bolingbroke either. We'll see later when it is in Derk's yard...

Old Plane
$1.00
Wawanesa
"Came with property when bought. Open to offers."

[David Dunlop]

An Avro Anson would be my first guess, Rob, based on surviving round fuselage windows. Possibly built by MacDonald Bros in Winnipeg.

The Anson is also one of the possibilities for the ones reportedly sitting underwater here in Manitoba, as you and Derk may recall.

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

An Avro Anson would be my first guess, Rob, based on surviving round fuselage windows. Possibly built by MacDonald Bros in Winnipeg.

The Anson is also one of the possibilities for the ones reportedly sitting underwater here in Manitoba, as you and Derk may recall.

David, Avro Anson - of course!

Here's Derk in a couple of years time:

"Sergeant, No. 14 (P) Squadron, RCAF, installing a vertical camera in an Avro Anson V, Rockcliffe, Ont., 4 July 1944"

[rob love]

Anson it is. And likely a local connection too.

Derk can have Rob Fast over (who is an RCAF enthusiast) and they can work on it.

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Someone wants their property cleaned up. I'd say go and grab it before it gets scrapped

It should be safe. The Commonwealth Air Training Plan Museum is nearby in Brandon. Unless someone with deep pockets wants to empty them, I have no doubt it will end up in their boneyard. I have gone to a few local auctions at farmsites and seen other fuselages hiding out back, and the answer is always the same. They are holding or storing it for the CATP museum.

[Grant Bowker]

Low wing, twin engine (radials), training (yellow) aircraft. Not a Cessna AT-17 Bobcat/Crane (sometimes called a bamboo bomber due to wood used in construction) due to window configuration.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

Anson it is. And likely a local connection too.

Derk can have Rob Fast over (who is an RCAF enthusiast) and they can work on it.

Sidetracking...it's a Mk.V or Mk.VI which was the Canadian improvement over the imported tube and fabric British ones. My favorite Anson story is when Britain shipped a batch of them to Canada as trainers for the BCATP. The RAF mechanics took them apart for shipping and to save time and maybe effort they didn't include the nuts and bolts. It would be easy to get them locally in Canada was their thinking. Well except that North American and British threads are not compatible.

[rob love]

Another meandering MLU thread. Starts with a question about a helmet liner and finds it's way over to stories about aircraft. I think that is why I like this site over all others. I guess it's time to make an overdue donation to the site.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by derk derin

Rob, thanks for posting the “decent” photo of me wearing the helmet, I have everyone laughing at the other one of me!

You are not saying they are laughing at this photo? The Cretins. Well I guess you know who your friends are.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

You are not saying they are laughing at this photo? The Cretins. Well I guess you know who your friends are.

I won't laugh until I know for sure...absolutely sure...those are part of the goggles and not his real eyebrows.