MG Battalion vehicle markings, Canadian Corps, 1940-42

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by DougR

I would be grateful if anyone can shed light on the identity of the unit of the Canadian Corps (1940-42) that used the serial number '47'.

I understand from information on www.canadiansoldiers.com that this was a Machine Gun Battalion, but am struggling to figure out which regiment they actually were.

Doug,

I don't know if I can provide a definitive answer for you, but I have the following.

When 1 Cdn Div embarked for England in December 1939, it contained three MG battalions. The reason being that, at the time, each infantry brigade contained an MG battalion. MG battalions later became a Corps asset, and no further MG battalions were sent overseas until April 1941.

The first three MG battalions were:
The Saskatoon Light Infantry (M.G.);
The Royal Montreal Regiment (M.G.); and
The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.).

Once the MG battalions became Corps assets, they would have been assigned Corps serials. It's also best to remember that units, when numbering was involved, were done so in order of seniority. The seniority of the three battalions were as they're listed above with the SLI being the senior and the TSR being the junior.

I would also suggest the serials 45, 46 and 47 would have been assigned accordingly. So there is a very good chance that Corps serial 47 in 1940 would have been for The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.).

Cheers,
Dan.

[DougR]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

Doug,

I don't know if I can provide a definitive answer for you, but I have the following.

When 1 Cdn Div embarked for England in December 1939, it contained three MG battalions. The reason being that, at the time, each infantry brigade contained an MG battalion. MG battalions later became a Corps asset, and no further MG battalions were sent overseas until April 1941.

The first three MG battalions were:
The Saskatoon Light Infantry (M.G.);
The Royal Montreal Regiment (M.G.); and
The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.).

Once the MG battalions became Corps assets, they would have been assigned Corps serials. It's also best to remember that units, when numbering was involved, were done so in order of seniority. The seniority of the three battalions were as they're listed above with the SLI being the senior and the TSR being the junior.

I would also suggest the serials 45, 46 and 47 would have been assigned accordingly. So there is a very good chance that Corps serial 47 in 1940 would have been for The Toronto Scottish Regiment (M.G.).

Cheers,
Dan.

Thank you for this information Dan!

It would indeed make sense that '47' was for The Toronto Scottish Regiment.

The reason for my enquiry is in connection with the attached photo which I recently came across. The Canadian Corps vehicle marking and the absence of insignia on the uniform of the driver would suggest that the photo was taken c.1940. The tam o'shanter would be consistent with The Toronto Scottish Regiment.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by DougR

Thank you for this information Dan!

It would indeed make sense that '47' was for The Toronto Scottish Regiment.

The reason for my enquiry is in connection with the attached photo which I recently came across. The Canadian Corps vehicle marking and the absence of insignia on the uniform of the driver would suggest that the photo was taken c.1940. The tam o'shanter would be consistent with The Toronto Scottish Regiment.

It's hard to see in the photo, perhaps the original is better, but does the Corp patch have a dark band in the centre (ie. red/black/red). The white band at the top suggests a Corp insignia. Also, does the cap badge on the balmoral offer any clue? I know it's probably hard to judge but the Toronto Scottish badge is distinctive and even a blurry shape might be a giveaway. Apparently the Tor Scotts wore blue putties early on too. This assumes it is his car he's standing beside.

[DougR]

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker

It's hard to see in the photo, perhaps the original is better, but does the Corp patch have a dark band in the centre (ie. red/black/red). The white band at the top suggests a Corp insignia. Also, does the cap badge on the balmoral offer any clue? I know it's probably hard to judge but the Toronto Scottish badge is distinctive and even a blurry shape might be a giveaway. Apparently the Tor Scotts wore blue putties early on too. This assumes it is his car he's standing beside.

The Corps sign does not appear to have any dark band running through the middle, but looks to be a plain red square. I understand that this was the version used by the Canadian Corps in 1940, before the creation of the 2nd Canadian Corps.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to see the cap badge of the driver. He appears to be wearing 1937 Pattern webbing gaiters, rather than puttees. Nevertheless, based on the information already shared, I am convinced that he should be from The Toronto Scottish Regiment.

[Ed Storey]

That is a lovely early war photograph and helps build a better picture of the AoS markings employed at the time. Even without being able to see the insignia, I would support the theory that the fellow in the photograph was from the Toronto Scottish and could quite possibly be a driver. What is the source of the photograph and has it been cropped?

[Ed Storey]

I stumbled upon this painting this afternoon, I am not sure what it is called, but the artwork can be easily researched as the original is held by the CWM.

Fox [1].jpg

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

I stumbled upon this painting this afternoon, I am not sure what it is called, but the artwork can be easily researched as the original is held by the CWM.

Attachment 117129

I love that painting. It is correct in every respect down to the spacing of the screws. I suppose the flashes could be artistic license or fictitious due to wartime censoring but the photo I posted below says otherwise. One detail missing is the yellow and black bridge class sign that should be on the right side of the sloping front armour. For many years I questioned the accuracy of the rest of the markings if this required marking was omitted. But if you look at the photo you'll see the bridge class was placed on the armour in the wheel well under the right fender. So from the angle of the painting it would not be visible. One more accuracy that can be verified with photo evidence.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by DougR

The reason for my enquiry is in connection with the attached photo which I recently came across.

Would you be able to provide a higher resolution image of the photograph?