Sherman Crab T147955 “Avalon” Overloon. Regiment? Damage?

[Alex van de Wetering]

"The story of Westminster Dragoons" sadly doesn't have too much detailed info on the battle in Broekhuizen, but I have to read the rest to see if it includes any info on census numbers and nicknames of tanks.

My previous comment on the "story of the Westminster Dragoons" was a bit blunt. Contrary to what I wrote, it does have detailed info on the battle of Broekhuizen, but it doesn't include names and census numbers of tanks I was looking for, and limited info on crew names. It is however a very interesting read and available online in PDF form.http://www.westminsterdragoons.co.uk...pe_1944-45.pdf

It lists that no.4 troop A squadron under command of William Hall was in Tilburg from 28 to 30 October, with 5 flails and a Command Tank manned by Capt. Squirrell. I found the pictures attached in the local Tilburg Archive, which has to be this group
Even though we now know that Avalon is not in this troop, but in no.2 troop in stead, I decided to post the images, as they give a nice view of the storages boxes and extra chains on the side of the hull, just like the one fitted to Avalon.

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

I actually think the left hand side box on Avalon in the early museum days was an ex-wading stack used as a box for spare chain, which I think I have seen on more Crabs, especially during the fighting in Normandy.

source:https://www.regionaalarchieftilburg.nl/zoek-een-foto/

[kevinT]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

My previous comment on the "story of the Westminster Dragoons" was a bit blunt. Contrary to what I wrote, it does have detailed info on the battle of Broekhuizen, but it doesn't include names and census numbers of tanks I was looking for, and limited info on crew names. It is however a very interesting read and available online in PDF form.http://www.westminsterdragoons.co.uk...pe_1944-45.pdf

It lists that no.4 troop A squadron under command of William Hall was in Tilburg from 28 to 30 October, with 5 flails and a Command Tank manned by Capt. Squirrell. I found the pictures attached in the local Tilburg Archive, which has to be this group
Even though we now know that Avalon is not in this troop, but in no.2 troop in stead, I decided to post the images, as they give a nice view of the storages boxes and extra chains on the side of the hull, just like the one fitted to Avalon.



source:https://www.regionaalarchieftilburg.nl/zoek-een-foto/

Hi Alex

T212594
I am not sure where this match came from, perhaps I came across it on another film and at a different angle showing turret number and census number. My census number database I started over 30 years ago so it could have come from anywhere.

Anyway I do have some other Westminster Dragoon census numbers.

Crabs
T148041 C Sqn turret No. 85 – Warfare Through The Lens – E18418
T147395
T147892
T148069
T148122 All shown in 27th Armoured Brigade Workshop returns

Some unmatched Crabs
T147988 – The Tank Museum
T148450 – British Pathe 2101.07.021
T148844 – British Pathe 2115.01.423
T149886 – Vanguard To Victory – D. Fletcher
T150458, T263318 – The Universal Tank, pt 2
T147393, T147805, T150153 – Courtesy Colin Clark
T212296 - ?

Cheers

Kevin

[MicS]

Great photos of Lt Hall's 4 Tp in Tilburg Alex!

All 5 Crabs are visible, led by Lt Hall's. He is the one with the moustache, leaning on the gun on this photo:

012238 - Crabs 4Tp A Sqn WD, Bredaseweg Tilburg, 27 Oct 44 - RA Tilburg - Ls WS Hall leaning on .jpg

Just ahead of his tank is another Sherman which must be Capt Squirrell's command tank. The stowed jerrycans on the left rear of the tank might mean it is the same tank as on IWM B10819, although of course the other command tanks in A Sqn might have used the same stowage method:

012236 - Crabs 4Tp A Sqn WD, Bredaseweg Tilburg, 27 Oct 44 - RA Tilburg - Notes.jpg

Finally, the second Crab in the line might have a name on its side, but the graffiti and low quality of the photo make it completely illegible:

012237 - Crab 4Tp A Sqn WD, Bredaseweg Tilburg, 27 Oct 44 - RA Tilburg.jpg

Michel

[Maurice Donckers]

here is another one , maybe been on here before .

[Maurice Donckers]

The above M4A4 must have been made before Feb . 1943 , because the lifting hooks still have the plate under them , Deleted from feb 1943 , SpitfireIV also has the late gun shield , no splash protection for final drive bolts , and the plates under the lifting hooks . Also spare track holders are in this position , Spitfire IV is produced in jan 1943

[MicS]

It must be a remanufactured tank, originally built before November 1942 (direct vision hoods). Features typical of remanufactured tanks include the add-on hatch guard armour plates and the gun travel lock.


Michel

[Jakko Westerbeke]

The additional armour plates before the drivers’ hatches were also to be added to tanks without direct vision flaps, because their purpose was to strengthen the armour in general there, not just prevent shots going in through those.

It’s very hard to tell in the photo above whether this particular tank has direct vision or not, though.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers

here is another one , maybe been on here before .

Terrific picture Maurice! Any idea when and where it was taken?

I am betting on a direct vision hull as well. Attached is a picture of another "mysterious" Sherman, Argyll Roger (or Argyle as it says on the side today!) from a similar angle for comparison

[MicS]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Terrific picture Maurice! Any idea when and where it was taken?

Supposed to be Kampen NL in 1945 according to this:
https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...717b464/media/

Michel

[MicS]

in a sorry state:
FO005208 Sherman V 232362 transmission exploded.jpg


It looks like a Direct Vision one, with the peculiar feature that the top of the add-on armour plates appear to have been cut just a little to fit with the rounded shape of the hoods.


Michel

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by MicS

led by Lt Hall's. He is the one with the moustache, leaning on the gun on this photo:

Thanks for the confirmation Michel!....I was presuming Hall was in the picture, I just wasn't sure which one he was.

Originally Posted by MicS

The stowed jerrycans on the left rear of the tank might mean it is the same tank as on IWM B10819, although of course the other command tanks in A Sqn might have used the same stowage method:

Good eye....I hadn't noticed that. Who knows...it might indeed be the same tank. Sadly the picture isn't any larger.....or better quality for that matter..

https://www.regionaalarchieftilburg....&rows=1&page=5