Mounting a Piat on a MK II Carrier

[Robert Bergeron]

Hallo folks . I want to mount a Piat on my Carrier . I have seen mounting clips for stowage atop the engine compartment and opposite the Sten stowage . Q . How about the monopod ? Upwards or downwards or no monopod at all when stowed in this position .

[Robert Bergeron]

Other view of the Piat stowage position . I set upside down to show . I tried right side up and it makes for a pretty high profîle ... not good for concealment and catchy for a net ...

[Michael R.]

The height of the stowage brackets on the engine cover protection plate should guide you. Are there adjustable and fixed monopods?

Note these are the stowage brackets, not the ready brackets as found in the front compartment when so equipped. Don’t be thrown off by the MK-III engine ventilation grill. The images were taken courtesy of Bovington Tank Museum, of their updated MK-II universal carrier.

[Ron Pier]

That's an interesting idea! My PIAT just sits on the floor. Ross are those brackets on the Bovy carrier definitely for a PIAT? The rear one looks a bit square and I haven't worked out which part of the PIAT it would hold?

The Bovy carrier is just 20 miles from me so easy to take more pictures and measurements when freedom of movement returns. Unless someone already has details of the brackets?

The monopod is easily removed/swiveled. Robert have you experimented with it facing the other way? Ron

[Michael R.]

The P.I.A.T. engine deck housing clips are an assembly part number, TL1031SA, rear, and TL1026SA, front.
Their full sub-assembly parts description and number(s) to be found in the stowage section of the March, 1945 first edition of the Chilwell Catalogue No. 63/76, Illustrated Parts List for Universal Carriers.

[Robert Bergeron]

Thanks Ron & Michael R . Ron , tomorrow when i go in the Carrier farm / shed i will try to turn the monopod sideways and see what it looks like and post . Stay safe ! Cheers . Robert

[Michael R.]

On the experimental P.I.A.T. housing clips at Ford Canada, a ‘stop-block’ was fixed on the engine deck, centered on the trigger guard. When the P. I. A. T. was stowed, the block prevented clockwise rotation of the projector. At least one of the images show the projector housed with the monopod attached, but oriented 180' from the firing position.

There are factory images of the C31UCW MK-II* carrier, as well as the W.C. N0. 4 MK-I* universal carrier ("Windsor") stowage using the similar flat, wide rear mount to stow a Boys A.T.R., with an alternate barrel clip. The T16 has a similar set of two Boys A.T.R. housing clips, the barrel clip is attached to the edge of the wireless radio antenna base that straddles the radiator cover and firing rest of the divisional wall.

[Ron Pier]

OK Chaps. Still searching, but so far I've found an image showing #12&13 front and rear PIAT housing clips. Not sure what PIAT housing means?

And a drawing of a PIAT mounted right side up in a T16, which looks to me as though the monopod is removed? Ron

PS, again I don't know why these scans don't appear as a full image??

[Robert Bergeron]

Sideways . If you turn the Piat sideways it’s a perfect fit .

[Robert Bergeron]

PIAT upright with monopod turned sideways . Better placement .

[Ron Pier]

That looks more feasible. Although I still can't see how the brackets in this drawing can stow a PIAT? Maybe I need to look closer at my PIAT in case I'm missing something. Ron

And still I can't get these scans to download as a picture? ......Michael R please!!

[kosbie]

I think the reason these brackets aren't a perfect fit for the PIAT is because they were originally designed for the BOYS AT rifle, to mount it over the engine cover on early MkII carriers and on MkI upgraded to MK II standard, when the BOYS was moved out of the left hand rear compartment to free up the space there. I could certainly never make my PIAT fit satisfactorily in them. They were then dropped when Welsh Guards stowage came in and replaced by a sten mount on the other side of the protection plate, (which solved the problem for me as my MkII* is Welsh guards stowage).

[Ron Pier]

Mine is also Welsh Guard Stowage. Maybe I'll forget the PIAT stowage idea then? Ron

[Robert Bergeron]

My understanding after reading the different opinions is that the brackets where initially meant to hold the Boys Rifle .They were later used to house the Piat . On newer MKII ´s , MKIII and T-16 ‘ s the brackets were then only used to house said LAW . So here are my brackets in the white before i prime and paint them . I have no idea what became of the Boys.

[Robert Bergeron]

Here are my Boys aka PIAT brackets installed . The Sten next to it is a perfect fit if you take out the stick magazine . I am happy . Now to find a Boys rifle ...Cheers.

[rob love]

I cannot imagine any situation where mounting a sten with the magazine attached would be a good idea.

[Lynn Eades]

When its not a real one Rob.

[Robert Bergeron]

Credit : Nigel Watson Universal Carriers Vol 2 pages 23 and 50 . Here we have the stowage sketch for MKII Carriers . The brackets and location that were once used for the Boys are now designated for the PIAT . See items 12 & 13 . He cites Chilwell No 63 / 76 . This may not apply to Canadian Carriers . I don’t know .

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron

Credit : Nigel Watson . Here we have the stowage sketch for MKII Carriers . The brackets and location that were once used for the Boys are now designated for the PIAT . See items 12 & 13 .

Also, see Ron Pier, this thread, Post #’s 8 & 9.

Yeah, slight differences in the stowage in the MK-II under the British Chilwell publication when compared with the MK-II* from the Canadian FUC-03. For example, the pick helve stowage brackets #34. There are examples of gaps between what was published in a catalog or manual vs. what ended up in field use.

Images show the Boys ATR ready position stowed in a carrier as late as April, 1945 in Germany.

[Ron Pier]

Robert have you made those brackets with the correct dimensions? Can you post them please. Ron

[Robert Bergeron]

Ron , eyeball measurements until i can get my hands on official ones . I used the same bolts and holes as the Sten brackets .

[Robert Bergeron]

Page 11 of Nigel ´s book : Boys rifle brackets . Notice there are 3 . The rear one is wide enough for the PIAT and is probably for the butt . The middle one is bolted to the top of the engine compartment and i don’t know what’s it for . The front one is up near the division wall and is for the barrel . It would not be of use for the PIAT . So , same place , different brackets for the PIAT. No idea if it was ever adopted by the Canadian manufacturer Ford. I notice the Bren drum magazine winding bracket to the left of the engine grill.

[Robert Bergeron]

Rear bracket

[Robert Bergeron]

Front bracket

[Robert Bergeron]

Overall interim installation .

[Ron Pier]

Thanks Robert. I must say, I like the look of the PIAT up there. I sometimes trip over mine! I can't see how the standard Boys brackets would have done it?

Ron