Grenade Hand Smoke C3

[Robin Craig]

Dear All,

I am posting this in relation to how these may have been carried in CF vehicles and used.

I was lucky enough to acquire a total of 11 of these cans in various types.

I have 1 Blue / Violet 2 Green 1 Red 3 Yellow 4 no colour designated.

I am very interested to know and understand more about them and their use in the CF and were they issued in this form or were they a break bulk container?

I love the Blue / Violet designation, that made me laugh.

There is nothing to give me any clue as to date of manufacture.

The ones i have multiples of I might be interested in trading.

I am looking for 3 lids for the ones I don't have.

[Chris Suslowicz]

I'm on the wrong side of the pond, but I think those are the tins they were issued in. (Taped on lids for waterproofing, etc.)

Contents were probably the Canadian equivalent of the No.83 British smoke grenade, used as a position marker for aircraft, etc.

The ones not marked with a colour may be "screening smoke" which is grey/white (also known as 'HC') and is filled with a mixture of powdered zinc and hexachloroethane. (It produces toxic fumes (hydrochloric acid) in use.)

The coloured smoke versions use a variety of dyes to give the colour, and the pyrotechnic mix has to be fairly cool burning or it will destroy the dyestuff.

All of them get hot enough to burn the paint off the grenade casing when used and can start fires in dry conditions.

(The HC mix can go-off spontaneously if manufactured in damp conditions, as a certain firework manufacturer discovered to their cost when an entire production batch (for base-ejection artillery shell) went off in their magazines. Oops!)

Chris.

[Robin Craig]

Thanks for your input Chris, much appreciated. I am wondering if armoured vehicles would have the smokes grenades still in these cans ie Ferrets.

[Ed Storey]

Robin, like everything associated with militaria, "the devil is in the details." The tins you have are for individual smoke grenades, but for shipment these tins were packed in either a metal or wooden containers and depending on the type of container each would hold a number of grenades of the same colour. Where the details come in is the tins you have may or may not have been used at the same time as the Ferret. The markings on the tins are key to the era in which they were used and you would need to consult with someone who has studied these grenades in more depth then I have to find out more about the markings.

If it helps any, I see that the Ferret had provision for both No. 36 (x6) Fragmentation and No. 80 (x12) White Phosphorus Smoke Grenades. I think this may possibly rule out your nice collection of blue/violet, red, yellow and green marked tins as being applicable to Ferret stowage.

[James P]

Out of curiousity I am wondering if these tins held a early version of the Pains-Wessex HCC1 smoke grenades, later P-W grenades came on a nifty little, two piece drawn, unpainted, aluminum can, tape sealed also. Further question, is how long did the Ferret serve in the CF and maybe different smoke types came through the supply system during the vehicles service life.

[Chris Suslowicz]

I think the cans held the standard No.83 smoke grenade and were intended (mostly) for use by the infantry for marking and signalling purposes. The can would protect the grenade until it was required for use. The design does not appear to have changed much since WW2, it's still a metal can with a cotter-pin retained fly-off handle, though the modern ones appear to be deep-drawn or splash-formed aluminium or plastic moulded casings instead of the old 'food tin' construction with a rolled closure at each end.

There's also a cheaper (I assume) version with a screw-off plastic cap and pull-cord igniter. (I think those are available commercially for distress signals and possibly the paintball fraternity.)

I used to have a (fired) No.83 grenade, the igniter was a .22 rimfire cap (vented at the back) crimped onto a length of Bickford safety fuse. (You could extract this and use it to fire .22 blackpowder blanks as a bird scarer or similar.)

Chris. (G8KGS)

[James P]

Chris S, no doubt you are right.

https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/artifact/2036198/

https://talesfromthesupplydepot.blog...moke-grenades/

And from Canadiansoldiers (types at bottom)

https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/wea...ndgrenades.htm

[45jim]

These cans are for the British PW smoke grenades. They were regular issue to Recce troops for air signaling and identification of ground troops. A piece of kit we were issued with the M113F Lynx was a pair of smoke grenade bins which were never mounted, it was too much a pain in the ass to install them and then remove them for every kit check. Supposedly the bins were of British manufacture and held three grenades and I was told were originally issued with the Ferrets. I really questioned this as they were the US style "loam/interior green" and not silver. I really thought they were for the original mounted smoke launchers.

When we did get smoke grenades they were just thrown into a convenient bin. We didn't use them often, mostly for work with helicopters.

[Robin Craig]

All great replies from all of you. I am learning more as I read, thank you.

Does anyone know how to email Michael Dorosh?

[Robert Bergeron]

Later evolution used early 80’s till more recently . Very hot , can and did start fires.

[James P]

Robin, see if you can find a copy of the CFP for Grenades and Pyrotechnics or just seek on line.

https://www.scribd.com/document/1162...nades-and-Pyro

Or

https://vdocuments.mx/canadian-force...otechnics.html

The secondary use of the tins would be for holding packettes of suger/coffee/creamers after the contents (smoke grenades) had been thrown so they still have a role with your vehicle today if you are going for the lived in/in service look.

[Robin Craig]

James P you have said what I believe to be the case, that such a useful item would have been squirreled away and reused as a handy field container for the niceties of life or some other such cause.

All great information.