Ford Canada Conventional and Modified Vehicles

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Found an expired auction listing for a Ford Motor Co of Canada Shop Manual / Maintenance Manual, for Conventional and Modified Conventional Vehicles. This is the First Edition of manual SE-29-C and was issued February 1946.



This has a list plus some pictures of the models described in the manual. This is a nice addition to the thread Ford Model designation



Shown here are a 1941 Ford Fordor C11A sedan and a 1942 Ford Fordor C21AS Staff Car. You can see the C11A is a Conventional vehicle, with just light alterations from a civilian vehicle. Ian McCallum noted: "Modified sedans started with the 39 model. I have a '40 01A(F). Changes included hide seats, fabrikoid interior plus military fitments and extra instrumentation." The manual noted it had a "grille guard on front bumper".

The "S" in C21AS denotes Special, it clearly has more modifications including heavier bumpers and a roof rack. It looks like the mudguards / wings are cut-back and it has a raised suspension?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Also included is well known 1941 C11AD Station Wagon (Truck Type). It's actually a C11ADF as it has right hand drive:




And the less well known 1942 C21AS Station Wagon (Conventional Modified). This also has RHD, so it would be an C21ASF, right?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I did a little searching and found there is also a second edition of manual SE-92-C dated January 1947, and a 1948/1949 version. Thy seem to have been updated with the post-war models which were essentially technically the same as the wartime models.

One of the sellers offering the reproduction shop manual for 1942-1948 Ford, Mercury, & Lincoln Zephyr models notes:

"The first shop manual produced by Ford in the U.S. was available in 1949. NO service manual was published or available from Ford in the USA before 1949. The repairs and service information was through the "Ford Service News", sent to the dealers. However, Ford of Canada did publish this service manual to cover the earlier years. The service procedures are the same for both US & Canadian made models, but, there are some references to models that do not apply to U.S. models. This manual contains complete instructions covering the Maintenance and Repair of Ford, Monarch, and Mercury Passenger Cars and Ford and Mercury Trucks manufactured by the Ford Motor Company of Canada."

Those of you who have seen Ford Canada CMP manuals before, will clearly recognize the layout of the maintenance manuals published for military use. Ford Canada apparently choose to make some money by offering the manual to the public buying surplus vehicles. even though it was against Ford USA’s policy.

[David Dunlop]

Hanno.

Did any of those wartime production vehicles have data plates added inside to denote relevant manuals, or did they simply rely on the conventional prewar data plates under the hood or on the door frames, which usually did not reference manuals?

The fact that Ford Canada deemed it useful postwar to publish a series of manuals targeting the civil population, suggests these vehicles were far more common than we think in civilian use. Publication probably targeted the commercial dealership network that would not have seen anything new coming through their doors for six years and with enough changes visible to leave them scratching their heads.

Smart idea on Ford’s part really. And now that I think of it, were any commercial manuals every published in Holland after the war covering any of the ex military vehicles that were in commercial use?

David

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

The fact that Ford Canada deemed it useful postwar to publish a series of manuals targeting the civil population, suggests these vehicles were far more common than we think in civilian use. Publication probably targeted the commercial dealership network that would not have seen anything new coming through their doors for six years and with enough changes visible to leave them scratching their heads.

Smart idea on Ford’s part really. And now that I think of it, were any commercial manuals every published in Holland after the war covering any of the ex military vehicles that were in commercial use?

Indeed I think it was a smart move, Ford Canada was catering for the needs of the people buying the surplus military and government vehicles which were acquired for domestic use and not shipped overseas. Selling the manuals and parts to owners and repair shops must have been a welcome revenue.

We all know that the US automotive industry lobbied for regulations keeping the vast numbers of surplus vehicles out of their home market. The regulations which prevent importing of ex-MDAP equipment into the USA are still in effect today. I don’t think the Canadian government was that protective?

This very manual translated into Dutch would have been very valuable for Dutch speaking owners in Holland and Belgium. I have never seen one, certainly worth investigating. Apparently a French one was published, possibly this was aimed at the French speaking military during WW2?

Bart Vanderveen told me that while drafted in the Army, he served on the huge vehicle dumps. His Sergeant kept one each of every Canadian Army manual he could lay his hands on. He had a huge private collection. Many years later, Bart heard his former Sergeant had passed away. Upon contacting his widow re. the collection of manuals, he learned to his dismay the widow had thrown the trunk with manuals in the trash...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Apparently a French one was published, possibly this was aimed at the French speaking military during WW2?

I knew I had seen it somewhere, turns out it was here on MLU in the thread 1941 Ford fordor question. I don't know if this was a wartime or postwar publication.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Did any of those wartime production vehicles have data plates added inside to denote relevant manuals, or did they simply rely on the conventional prewar data plates under the hood or on the door frames, which usually did not reference manuals?

David, the French version of the manual notes an identification plate was fitted to the firewall, just under the voltage regulator. It only listed engine, trim, paint and code. The code was the model designation. No reference made to maintenance manuals like on CMP dash data plates.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I don't know if this was a wartime or postwar publication.

Attachment 111744

The publication number of SE-29-CF would indicate it is the French version of SE-29-C, likely published at the same time, or later. This would make it a post-war publication.

I also have a copy of SE-29-C, and most of the chapters and sections are just reprints of the Canadian wartime Ford Service Bulletins or Military manuals. Canadian FSB's contain much more info than the (often-repro'd) US FSB, particularly on the developments to the V8 Engine, which US dropped for the war years.

Another manual I have is a publication by Ford Motor Company of Australia, which is a "Parts List of Conventional and Modified Conventional Pattern vehicles used by the Australian Army". Again, a distillation of information found in other Canadian publications, but it also contains a chapter on the Marmon-Herrington equipment, which I've not come across in any Canadian book.

[Bill Kreiner]

Just sharing a few basic things I found. The first comes from "Cars of Canada" by Durnford and Baechler, and merely points out that beefed-up passenger-cars and station wagons were used by the Canadian military. Also, a reserve pool of 4,500 new cars was set aside for essential civilian use (compared to over 500,000 in the U.S., I might add, the very last of which wasn't delivered till 1947).

The second and third are from "British Woodies from the 1920s to the 1950s" by Colin Peck. They describe how Ford of Canada got involved in building wagons for the British, and give contract numbers for the C11ADF. Since the last C11ADF wagons weren't delivered till 1943, it seems reasonable to conclude that no C21ADF was made, with updated 1942-model styling.

(One image is turned on its side and I can't get it to right itself, even though it's correct in my computer; please save and rotate it on your viewing device.)

[Bill Kreiner]

This is a 1926-1947 Ford of Canada sales document, breaking down by marque and type of vehicle; and if for civilian use, defense use, or if imported. Model nomenclature is unfortunately not mentioned, nor whether the vehicles were RHD or LHD. It can be very hard to read!

I retyped this into Excel to make it much easier to read:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jat48lcmrg...nt%29.xls?dl=0

[Bill Kreiner]

These are both the same 1940 calendar-year production document, which the copy technician who was helping me at Benson Ford had to position differently to get the rest of the data. There is Canadian data.

[Bill Kreiner]

As with the 1940 document, this 1941 Ford calendar-year production document had to be positioned two ways to get all the data; that said, there is still some data cut off on the top left (which refers to U.S. vehicles, and it can be figured out what the vehicles are). But I should have checked everything before leaving! The Canadian portion is clear.

[Bill Kreiner]

Here are 1942, 1943, 1944, and 1945 Ford production documents, each with a Canadian section.

[Bill Kreiner]

This is a 1940-1944 Deliveries to Dealers document (last page out of 7, showing Canada domestic and export deliveries at the bottom). My understanding is that in overseas markers, dealers often did the assembling of kits, even for military units.

Not sure if any of these documents have been of help, or perhaps have raised even more questions! I'll see what else I can find.

[Bill Kreiner]

Since Canadian Ford military cars are the subject of this post, it may be helpful to include the material I have on U.S. Ford military cars. (If anyone has O'Callaghan's book "Ford in the Service of America" they should note that these documents are the source for his data on passenger-cars.)

[Bill Kreiner]

This is the time-table for the above U.S. Ford military cars.

[Steve Guthrie]

Hi there

Here are some Ford of Canada car Canadian Army photos

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

This very manual translated into Dutch would have been very valuable for Dutch speaking owners in Holland and Belgium. I have never seen one, certainly worth investigating. Apparently a French one was published, possibly this was aimed at the French speaking military during WW2?

Hanno

I don't think this French version of the manual was aimed at French military (who tended more to have stocks of US vehicles rather than Commonwealth), but was more a post-war Domestic publication provided for multi-lingual users in provinces such as Quebec.

The fact that these manuals have not appeared in Dutch or Portuguese (who were prodigious Colonial users of CMPs and MCPs post-war) indicates that they were not intended for secondary market military users.

Were any of the wartime manuals (MB-F1, MB-FUC01, MB-C1, MB-C2, etc) printed in French for Quebecois Canadian Soldiers?

[Tony Smith]

Another plate from SE-29-C shows a RCAF MCP COE truck.

While they have used a standard COE lithograph for the illustration (with RCAF lettering added to the door), the vehicle description suggests it should look slightly different.

The 2 fuel tanks is a typical WD modification for MCP vehicles, as is the Split Rims and 10.50-16 tires. I think this would be a very attractive truck in that configuration, particularly if the wheel arches were enlarged like other conventional-cab MCP trucks with WD-type wheels. Does anyone have any pics?

[Sergey Egorov]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Another manual I have is a publication by Ford Motor Company of Australia, which is a "Parts List of Conventional and Modified Conventional Pattern vehicles used by the Australian Army".

Tony, What models of this trucks? All is Ford C298T?

[Sergey Egorov]

Page from 1946 Ford Monarch Mercury Shop Manual.

[Bill Kreiner]

Ford of Australia 1941-1945 sales figures (provided by the late archivist Adrian Ryan in a document covering 1925-1971):

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Sergey Egorov

Tony, What models of this trucks? All is Ford C298T?

Sergey, It might be one of these.

I just had a look in my library and have this Parts List TM-10-1540 for the Ford Model 218TF dated June 1942. It is for the 30cwt or 1.5 ton 4x2 truck on a 158.25 inch WB.

Hanno, I also have SE-29-C.




Regards Rick.

[Sergey Egorov]

I think the real Ford 218TF is depicted in these photos.

[Bill Kreiner]

Does anyone know what model this 1944 Modified Conventional Ford is? I found it on an ancient thread in this group, but there is no further identification.

[Brian Gough]

Bill,

check out this MLU Forum thread:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=13817


Brian

[Bill Kreiner]

Brian:

Thank you -- I was unaware of that thread!

Bill

[rob love]

That truck resides in my lineup these days, patiently waiting it's turn for restoration. There is another one next to it for parts, but the second one was just a cab-chassis when found.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Shown here are a 1941 Ford Fordor C11A sedan and a 1942 Ford Fordor C21AS Staff Car. You can see the C11A is a Conventional vehicle, with just light alterations from a civilian vehicle. Ian McCallum noted: "Modified sedans started with the 39 model. I have a '40 01A(F). Changes included hide seats, fabrikoid interior plus military fitments and extra instrumentation." The manual noted it had a "grille guard on front bumper".

The "S" in C21AS denotes Special, it clearly has more modifications including heavier bumpers and a roof rack. It looks like the mudguards / wings are cut-back and it has a raised suspension?

Two pictures of a Ford 1941 model Staff Car in use at Sherbrooke, Canada, ca. 1942, courtesy of ‎Yan Lauzon.

Being a 1941 model, that would make it a C11AS rather than a C21AS, right?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Shown here are a 1941 Ford Fordor C11A sedan and a 1942 Ford Fordor C21AS Staff Car. You can see the C11A is a Conventional vehicle, with just light alterations from a civilian vehicle. Ian McCallum noted: "Modified sedans started with the 39 model. I have a '40 01A(F). Changes included hide seats, fabrikoid interior plus military fitments and extra instrumentation." The manual noted it had a "grille guard on front bumper".

The "S" in C21AS denotes Special, it clearly has more modifications including heavier bumpers and a roof rack. It looks like the mudguards / wings are cut-back and it has a raised suspension?

Courtesy of the Canadian Kangaroo Regiment Association & Archive, some pictures of a 1942 Ford C21A or C21AS Staff Car, just after the war had ended in Europe. It has census number CM 4234110.

Join the Army and see the world!

For Kangaroos in the Netherlands and awaiting repatriation to Canada in the summer of 1945, there was plenty of opportunity for sightseeing. Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark, England and Scotland were all among popular destinations.

Many had opportunities to see the continent as part of their occupation duties, others planned their Privilege Leave around visiting the great cities of Europe.

(WJM)

Photos: 1CACR Archive

Here is a whole series of photos with this Ford from the estate collection of Sgt. Rowland Marshall. I believe this a staff car from the Cdn Army Leave Centre. The photos are all unmarked but it appears they tooks a trip to Cologne and possibly down to the Bavarian Alps.