Handing it down

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

My wife pointed out something interesting to me last night . . . in trying to get rid of my dad`s CMP, I`m learning more about them than in all the ten years I spent trying to keep it . . . hmmm

-Chris Ford

Go on Chris, keep it.... you really should!

[Howard]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Go on Chris, keep it.... you really should!

I second that motion... All those in favor say "I"!

[r.morrison]

Hi Guys: Spoke with Kevin today about this little dilema. At this point, I wasn't sure what we had to work with. Now I know it's a Betamax tape. He has mentioned today, that there are studios here that can eliminate noise frequencys and even mentioned the Law Enforcement Agencies that have equipment to hopefully eliminate some of the problem(s).

So, just clarify with me....it is a Betamax Tape. If so, how many do you have and if so, are any of these the original tape? And who has these tapes? The more info you can give me, the easier it will be to give you a possible answer.

We do have our connections with the Law Enforcement Agencies here (in an honest way!) so if we have to, we can connect with them.

Get back to me with the info and I'll see what I can do. Cheers...Robert

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Go on Chris, keep it.... you really should!

Peter will be so pleased to see his son..grand kids..great grand kids..great great grand kids riding and driving around in his old Ford...
Chris..You will never find another like it..ever..!!
You will rue the day you ever sold it..if you do..
Keep it..
My .02....Canadian...$00.02.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

Chris:

Best to get and keep the truck in good running order. Try Brian Asbury in Milton, Ontario. 519-853-1738. No storage space in Saskatchewan? I can't believe that! If you think its hard to find out there, try finding storage in the Vancouver, BC area! That is a key reason why I sold my Ferret Scout Car (a little armoured car).

Selling a truck that does not run is a big money losing proposition. If you donated it to a museum you would get a tax receipt for "Fair Market Value" i.e. the value it would sell for in an open market with a willing seller and knowledgeable buyer. Higher value if running! If tax receipt is from a regular non-profit society/museum, at tax time you could deduct it and the tax rules let you deduct about 27% of the value. If you donate it to to a Federal museum, their tax receipt will be good for 100%. Unfair to small museums but then Ottawa writes the rules. For appraisals under $1,000 a Curator can do it. If between $1,000 and $5,000 then a second appraiser is required. If over $5,000 then three appraisers are required. I could be one of those for you at no cost, in memory of your Dad. Could do it through photos. I have seen the truck, though years ago. Value is likely between $5,000 and $15,000. Sadly Canadian vehicles don't usually command high prices as the demand is strangely low. Canadian War Museum would not need it. They have lots of CMPs. There are some military museums in Sask. Also some collectors.

If you have a problem finding someone to convert Beta tapes to DVD, let me know. An acquaintance owns a company here in BC which does many types of conversions.

By the way, please keep your eyes open for a cassette tape of mine that I had loaned to your Dad. It was recordinjg of us firing (legally) a variety of machineguns, and riding in Mickey Zwack's Universal Carrier in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. Unfortunately was the only copy and the gun laws have changed so we cannot repeat the sound effects.

Colin Stevens seaforth72@gmail.com

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

Thanks Keith, Brian, Alex, Hanno, Phil, and Colin for your replies. ...

Colin, any sense of what my dad`s truck is worth - if a person sold it privately or donated it to a museum? Does the tax receipt match the approximate private sale value? The truck is still in good condition. I believe the master cylinder needed work or replacement (ideas where to get one or who to see to get`er fixed?) and as a result the brakes don`t work. As well the fan belt is too old and loose (again ideas on where to get a new one?).
Also Colin, I saw your tribute too. Whenever I wanted to show somebody what my dad and a CMP looked like - I would go to your site. Thanks for for the kind words and act.

Other than that I think she`s still a beaute! We used it in 2001 as the wedding party vehicle for my sister`s wedding - the first time I got to drive it. Wow, double clutching with no synchomesh, and gas pedal in the middle, not to mention its all backwards for right-hand driving. It was pretty fun!

Keith - where do you want me to send the tapes? I`m going to dub my dad`s opening remarks onto DVD for my family once I remember how to hook up the wires, and while I`m at it, I`ll probably do the whole five tapes as well, then send the originals to you. Betamax isn`t a problem for you right? If Australia is all out, I`ve still got 4 of my father`s former 11 kicking around - you know for parts!

Not to be forgotten, I also appreciated the kind words on your web site about my pop. Writing this post - I hadn`t previously considered that three different individuals in three different countries had devoted a section of their websites to pay tribute to him. That`s really something to me.

-Chris Ford

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

The truck is still in good condition. I believe the master cylinder needed work or replacement (ideas where to get one or who to see to get`er fixed?) and as a result the brakes don`t work. As well the fan belt is too old and loose (again ideas on where to get a new one?).
*snip*
Other than that I think she`s still a beaute! We used it in 2001 as the wedding party vehicle for my sister`s wedding - the first time I got to drive it. Wow, double clutching with no synchomesh, and gas pedal in the middle, not to mention its all backwards for right-hand driving. It was pretty fun!

Hello Chris,

Go to Modern part numbers for CMPs to look up the part no. for a Ford brake master cylinder. They are still a current item. If the master cylinder itself is still usable, you can buy a set of cups etc. off a WW2 Dodge WC-series truck as the innards of both master cylinders are the same.
As for fanbelts, check macsautoparts.com or any other retailer stocking Ford Flathead parts, they should be able to help you out.
But not too difficult jobs if you have some spanner twirling experience, otherwise it should not cost and arm an a leg to have someone else do it.

As others have said, if you do not need the cash and can arrange storage someplace, I think it is worth keeping the truck. Being in a very busy phase of your life, you could also consider loaning it to a museum. It will be on display and under cover, but you will keep it in the family.

Regards,
Hanno

[r.morrison]

Dear Phil, Keith, Bob, Brian, Alex, Derek, Chris, Brian, Hanno and Marc......As per my earlier input on this subject... who has the details on the tapes and who has them??? My parties are now inquiring if you want help. Please advise......Robert

[Chris Ford]

Dear Robert and others interest in the tapes finer details

I have 5 betamax tapes. All of them are L250 (that's the designation of tape length - back in the day they had L125, L250, L500, L750, and logically L830) The recording speed was Beta II - meaning middle of the road quality - which on beta was still quite good. The resultant length in minutes is therefore 60. That's right 5 - 1 hour tapes. Bonken Productions Inc. provided the editing facilities and it's their letterhead that appears on the outside of the tapes I have, so I gather it was issued directly from them. However my dad had a tendancy to print off formal looking things for his tapes so I can't be entirely sure.

The tapes are not just raw footage, editing of the seminar is evident, but how much was taken out, is unknown to me. My feeling is that not too much was cut from the talks. As well the producer (Bill Trbovich) also acts as the narrator and inserts some commentary accompanied by black and white photos from the war. I still haven't watched too much of the entire five hours, but the narration parts seem to be few in number. Photos are also periodically inserted while the panelists are speaking. Although this adds to the show, during the parts where the panelist is difficult to understand, it does render any lip reading during those segments impossible. Depending on the ability of technology to clean-up noise, lip reading may be the only way to understand what is being said for portions of the video - that and some intelligent deduction. From what I've seen so far, portions of the first and second video are tough to follow - it sort of depends on who was speaking and how closely they spoke into the mics and whether other mics were open while they were speaking. The last 3 tapes seemed better, from a quick glance, but more extensive viewing may reveal difficulties with those tapes as well.

As for the producer Bill Trbovich and his production company TRBojay, I found him on facebook and have sent him a letter telling him of our interest to make these tapes more widely available. I am not certain as to the legality of copying his work and sending it out to others, or even making the tapes available. I thought with the seminar being so far back, maybe copyrights might have expired - however from what I've looked up, copyrights for video in Canada last 50 years after the author passes away. I've asked him to provide his thoughts on the fair usage of this. Perhaps you guys, particularly Keith in the production industry, know more about this issue. I have not heard back from him yet, and if not soon, may try him at other contact addresses on the internet. As a small aside, the copyright symbol at the end of the tape looked not like a circled c but a circled b - is that symbol of ownership or was the video just playing games with me?


As to my truck issue:

First I'd like to really thank those who suggested some really practical ideas for improving its state. And yes, Colin there are a few open hectares of space in Saskatchewan, however I was looking for some indoor space and that costs mucho dinero every month. My prime concern, more powerful than a desire to keep it, is to see it preserved in good condition. I guess that's why I hoped for a museum. In my keep, with almost no knowledge of vehicle maintenance (sad but true) I see it leaking away, rusting away, wearing away only because I wanted to hang on to it. I don't want it to get to an irreparable state. I'd prefer to see it parading out in the streets, year after year on VE day, Remembrance Day (maybe too cold), for car shows and for Air shows (sadly we recently had our last one) - always inspiring the question - "What in the world is that thing?" and a number of other questions. The curiosity inspired by an impressive hunk of steel which leads to a greater understanding of history. All of this would require careful and vigilant maintenance from someone with the know-how. My dad figured mechanics out (to a degree) from taking apart and putting together Land Rovers. "Take it off ABC and put it back on CBA" he used to tell me. I grew up with Honda and Nissan - touch anything and the computer inside will chastise you. That hands-on motor savvy is another one of those things that seems to be going by the wayside with this generation.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't see the situation as hopeless. But just viewing things realistically, I don't think I'll be able to find the faulty piston by sticking a wooden spoon to the engine like my grandfather could - that is to say, mechanics scares me, especially the idea of learning on something so rare and valuable. Incidentally - Alex, when you said I could never find a vehicle like it - were you implying that my dad's truck was a particularly noteworthy example of a CMP or simply saying that I would never find any other CMP?

p.s. If you haven't noticed, I'm the king of short, succinct letters. I apologize for my extensive brevity.

[r.morrison]

God.....I hate emails! Chris send me your phone number. My email address is rob.mor@shaw.ca. Will call you over the next few days. Regards...Robert

[Chris Ford]

Hello again, I apologized for the infrequency of my communications as well as the length when I do . . .

In April of 2011 a couple of things occurred: I facebooked Bill Trbovich, producer of the 1984 seminar about our interest in re-releasing the tapes and I breathed my last free breaths of having only one child. Shortly after Emmet Ford was born and he just started sleeping normally about a week ago!!

This month two MLU relevant issues presented themselves.

1. For a myriad of reasons I decided to sell the rental property with the garage where my dad's CMP was being stored. It sold immediately and the truck must be moved by March 8th (incidently my dad's birthday). I contacted Marilyn Gurney, President of the Organization of Military Museums of Canada (OMMC) who forwarded my willingness to donate the truck to a museum. I received replies from: New Brunswick Military History Museum; The RCA Museum in Shilo; EME Museum (which I don't know where it is); saskatchewan military museum (which is new, and I don't know much about); Canadian Militaria Preservation Society (http://youtu.be/QDfMighZEiU); and The Calgary Highlanders Regimental Museum and Archives.

I was wondering if y'all had thoughts about these establishments. I remember my dad speaking of Shilo fondly. I have interest in the truck staying in Sask. and perhaps helping out a fledgling museum, but wonder about it's long-term durability. In general I wonder if a museum will take the truck but never show it.

Colin, you had offered appraisal services. I have attached three pics. The hood is the cab, but can easily be put back on. I would be very thankful if you would be willing to share your knowledge here. In terms of mechanics, I believe the master cylinder for the brakes needed to be replaced and the it had been suggested to sleeve the brake lines. The fan belt is loose and both water pumps leak. The engine starts easily and runs great. (I find that incredible for a 70 year old truck with few tune-ups. - take that Honda!)

Do museums want the truck in running condition? Do they keep it that way? Would it be worth fixing the mechanical stuff before donating?

2. The other development, and the one more related to this thread:Bill Trbovich got back to me! Here's what he had to say:

Boy does this bring back memories. Let me put things in perspective for you. The CMP seminar you have a copy of was shot on Bill Gregg's farm in Rockwood Ontario in the rather large barn where he housed his collection. The cameraman who shot the seminar was Jim Reid who has since passed away. The seminar was shot on Sony 3/4 inch tape and dubs were made at BonKen Productions on behalf of my company, Trbojay Productions Ltd. I was still working for CBC Television when the seminar was shot and soon went to Global Television shortly afterward. My ex business partner, John Harris worked as the commercial producer for Global at the time and Ken ..I can't remember his last name..was John's editor. The reason the seminar was shot on 3/4 inch tape instead of betacam (the then industry standard), was because Ken did not have access to betacam editing gear. Still the quality was quite good but if remember correctly sound could have been a problem because we did not have a large operating budget, so a dedicated soudman was not possible.
If I recall correctly, quite a few of the participants were key people involved in Canada's military production during the war, so it was worth recording. Bill Gregg donated copies of this seminar to the Canadian War Museum as well as the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at CFB Shiloh Manitoba when he donated his entire collection in the late 1980's. Bill unfortnately passed away but his wife Caroline still resides at the family farm in Rockwood. His son Andrew is still involved in television as well and they may have copies or the original. Beyond providing copies at the seminar participants, I did not distribute the seminar to anyone else. As to the new generation not using beta tapes, everything now is put on DVD. I have no problem making the seminar available to a new audience . I think it would be a great idea.
However before you emabark on any duplication, I would appreciate seeing your copies and perhaps I can arrange to have your copies re-edited, digitally enhanced and hopefully correct the sound problems. Video production has come a long way since this seminar was shot.
I considered Bill Gregg a good friend and I have fond memories of your father too. I met Bill during my days as a reporter at CKCO television in Kitchener and my passion for building models of armour and Bill's thirst for knowledge on anything WW2, especially Canadian, made for a lasting friendship. I did subsequent stories with Bill when I worked at CBC and again at Global. If you're embarking upon reissuing these tapes, let’s do it properly, for Bill and your Dad.
I would like to be involved since my name is on it. Thank you for making me aware of this.
All the best,
Bill Trbovich
IAMAW Director of Communications

So supposedly the Canadian War Museum as well as the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at CFB Shiloh Manitoba have copies of the seminar - maybe one of them is the original. Perhaps they still have them. I can contact them to find out. It sounds like Bill would like to help make them available.

-Chris Ford

[Keith Webb]

That sounds very encouraging and I'm sure the MLU community would be happy to pay for copies on DVD once it has been enhanced as far as possible.

3/4" tape was used as an acquisition medium for many years before the 1/2" formats such as Betacam and then Betacam SP and digital Betacam came along. It was in two formats - low band and high band which was known as BVU.

It tends not to age very well as the oxide tends to separate from the backing leading to lots of drop outs and clogged heads so even if the original were available it may not be very viable which means the best available may well be copies on VHS or Betamax.

Let's just hope something watchable can come of this - it is indeed historic, with Sid Swallow, one of the original designers of the CMP range being a participant.

[David Dunlop]

Well Hello, Chris!

It's so odd I was thinking about you guys and your Mum the other day and wondering if your old address in Saskatoon was still on the Ford Family Map.

That would be great fun to see the Seminar again. I roomed with your Dad during that get together and recall he and Bill being in discussion early in the event about the sound issues. I think they did get it resolved by the second half of the event. I also recall an evening activity with slides and casual chatter, with someone keeping us very entertained with stories about the operation of the Ford Lynx, and Ferrets in Australia.

I believe the Commandant from CFB Bordon attended and the event included a tour of the Borden airfield, Training facilities, armour collection and I think even the Medical Museum, which was across the street from Worthington Park. The Commandant used to bicycle to get around base and it was parked at the front of the Admin Bldg with his pennant on it.

I also seem to recall a formal dinner, somewhere in Hamilton perhaps, with a very nice 25 per on the lawn outside.

Very best regards, Chris.


David

[Phil Waterman]

Hi David

Yes then Colonel James Hanson commandant Camp Borden attended the entire seminar, I remember hearing him comment concerning the discussions about North Africa and the need to quickly modify equipment, they are talking about lessons the Canadian Army has learned and forgotten and will have to learn again.

Colonel Hanson retired from the Canadian Military as Brigadier-General Hanson.

Cheers Phil

[David Dunlop]

Hi Phil.

I went in and had a look at the photos on your site. Nice job, but who are all those young people???


David

[Stew Robertson]

NOW us old people!

[Stew Robertson]

I have been bouncing around on This MLU site again and every time I read it I find more information and some I do not remember at all OLD AGE
,any way As II was reading this which I do not remember reading before I realized I am the guy with the original tapes
and If some one wants to try to enhance the sound of the tapes please contact me to keep this event and memory alive and well and keep this a part of Canadian History
Stew

[Keith Webb]

Hi Stew

Sound and vision is my field, I'd be happy to see if I can do something, although it depends what format they are on as to whether I can transfer them to do the work.

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

I have been bouncing around on This MLU site again and every time I read it I find more information and some I do not remember at all OLD AGE
,any way As II was reading this which I do not remember reading before I realized I am the guy with the original tapes
and If some one wants to try to enhance the sound of the tapes please contact me to keep this event and memory alive and well and keep this a part of Canadian History
Stew

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

I also recall an evening activity with slides and casual chatter, with someone keeping us very entertained with stories about the operation of the Ford Lynx, and Ferrets in Australia.

I have only just picked up on this thread and although the post above is now 3 years old, I may be able to add something.

David, I believe that the person entertaining you with stories of Ferrets in Australia was the late Dave Brown, an AMVCS member from Sydney. I know he was at the seminar as I recollect him telling me about it some 15 to 20 years ago and have seen him in a group photo.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

That's great news Stew!

Keith may be able to make them presentable, and MLU would be happy to host them on our server to make the tapes available for all to enjoy.

Originally Posted by Stew Robertson

If some one wants to try to enhance the sound of the tapes please contact me to keep this event and memory alive and well and keep this a part of Canadian History

[Chris Ford]

Hello folks,

After 6 years of not having enough free time and 6 hours of searching today (it was literally in the last and farthest buried box - and I had almost lost hope of finding it...

I was finally able to post the first part of the CMP '84 seminar on youtube. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zivENLfZcb4

I had previously dubbed half of the whole series onto a dvd, but my computer won't recognize that, so I redigitized today... and it took a couple of hours to upload, but it looks like it is there and working. The sound for this segment seems fine. I believe it is later parts where the sound gets a bit sketchy.

I hope to put up the others soon.

Enjoy!

[Keith Webb]

Absolutely wonderful, can't wait to watch it. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this Chris! Are you happy for me to share it to my CMP Facebook group as well?

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

Hello folks,

After 6 years of not having enough free time and 6 hours of searching today (it was literally in the last and farthest buried box - and I had almost lost hope of finding it...

I was finally able to post the first part of the CMP '84 seminar on youtube. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zivENLfZcb4

I had previously dubbed half of the whole series onto a dvd, but my computer won't recognize that, so I redigitized today... and it took a couple of hours to upload, but it looks like it is there and working. The sound for this segment seems fine. I believe it is later parts where the sound gets a bit sketchy.

I hope to put up the others soon.

Enjoy!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Excellent Chris! Thank you very much for doing this. This community is endebted to you for saving these tapes and putting them online.

Our challenge is now to put names to the faces and maybe produce transcripts.

Best regards,
Hanno

Originally Posted by Chris Ford

Hello folks,

After 6 years of not having enough free time and 6 hours of searching today (it was literally in the last and farthest buried box - and I had almost lost hope of finding it...

I was finally able to post the first part of the CMP '84 seminar on youtube. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zivENLfZcb4

I had previously dubbed half of the whole series onto a dvd, but my computer won't recognize that, so I redigitized today... and it took a couple of hours to upload, but it looks like it is there and working. The sound for this segment seems fine. I believe it is later parts where the sound gets a bit sketchy.

I hope to put up the others soon.

Enjoy!

[Chris Ford]

Keith - Yes, I think the link should be shared with the CMP facebook group.
Hanno - I am very happy to help the CMP group preserve this history and knowledge. I found it amazing to hear from those who were there from the beginning describing how it unfolded.

The video for reel 2 is ready. You can youtube search "CMP seminar" or use the link below:

https://youtu.be/Dg3Ow_yqt9g

I added the panelists names in the video description of video 1.

Although the sound has not yet been enhanced, I figure, just get em online, ASAP, and more skilled technicians can perfect it later.

I may have found the original tapes - I have 2 UCA 60's - One with the label, "Stills for CMP Seminar 84" in which there is a sheet of paper listing all the still photographs in the videos and another with no title - which could be Expo '67, or Montreal Olympics for all I know. I have no machine that plays this sort of 1 inch videotape. Anyone??

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Chris, haven’t seen it all yet but it is very good to see and hear those CMP household names: Sid Swallow, Peter Ford, Bill Gregg, Bart Vanderveen, and then some.

I am sure audiovisual experts could improve the quality of the recording. I am sadly not that person. But I am very happy you got that footage online!

Hanno

[David Dunlop]

Hello Chris.

Thanks for doing this amazing work for us. Took a quick look at the first reel and was gob smacked to see and hear your Dad’s opening speech. I roomed with him during that event and recall him fine tuning what he wanted to say at the motel the night before.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I think we got a list of attendees while we were there. I met Phil Waterman from the USA there and I am sure Australia was represented as well.

A bit of a long shot perhaps, but it might be worth checking with your local CBC TV Station about the UCA 60 tapes. Everything is digital now, but I cannot imagine they have converted all of their tape archives, so they may be able to point you in the right direction for assistance.

I cannot recall if your Dad was still smoking a pipe at the time of the conference, but do recall the plumes of smoke he was capable of producing were directly proportional to his level of excitement over CMPs!

David

[Chris Ford]

Thanks David. The images from your descriptions bring me a large smile.

That's a good idea about checking with CBC... their markings are on the cassette!

Reel #3 is now up. https://youtu.be/je2FeuUCSBE
Reel #4 is also now up. https://youtu.be/dtDhnMqkBIY - the first time I watched any of reel 4 - it's great! The sound doesn't seem to be a problem, and the stories are not just informative, but fascinating.

[Mike Cecil]

"I am sure Australia was represented as well."

Sure was: reel 2, 12 minutes in: the late Dave Brown, from Aust Military Collectors Society in Sydney, NSW.

I had my first 'tour' in a Ferret Mk2 with Dave at the helm - through Sydney traffic. A memorable experience!

Interesting film. Thanks for putting it up.

Mike

[Chris Ford]

Thanks for sharing that info Mike. I'm really glad that connections to the people and events of the past are brought to life by these videos.

Reel #5 is up - https://youtu.be/fDQR7IW2LD4 and includes the last 20 minutes of the seminar plus a couple news items regarding the Bill Gregg's collection made by Bill Trbovich - series narrator and producer.

I would also like to thank the Zenith corporation for making a Beta machine that outlasted even my Sony (whose sound won't work - anyone know how to solve that?) The tracking on the Zenith doesn't work, but very fortunately, the tape needed no tracking adjustment and worked well.

I hope you all enjoy seeing these videos on their 35th anniversary and that the stories live on for another 35 and beyond.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

"I am sure Australia was represented as well."

Sure was: reel 2, 12 minutes in: the late Dave Brown, from Aust Military Collectors Society in Sydney, NSW.

I had my first 'tour' in a Ferret Mk2 with Dave at the helm - through Sydney traffic. A memorable experience!

Interesting film. Thanks for putting it up.

Mike

Mike,
I remember Dave telling me about the meeting when I first met him in 1992. Dave had been on the 1984 MVCG Normandy Tour prior to going to Canada as I recall.

regards, Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here is Phil Waterman’s writeup plus photos of the CMP Seminar:

https://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/CMP84.htm

H.