Quebec Transport Ministry + MV owners

[rob love]

Does Quebec have an access to information law? Could one not request copies of any relevant information, including the letters, that gave cause to enact these policies?

[M38CDNBill]

Originally Posted by rob love

Does Quebec have an access to information law? Could one not request copies of any relevant information, including the letters, that gave cause to enact these policies?

As I know until now, no-one could get the letters written to the SAAQ, not even more than it gives the names of these suppliers, and the government authorities gives no more reasons other than those of this ministerial decree. Most likely that the cause will have to be brought in court for the government reveals its sources.

[Patrick B]

Hi everyone.
Im the guy in BC having problems registering my 1961 ferret.
The main problem i am having is the fact ICBC and CVSE are refusing to acknowledge that the ferret is a antique motor vehicle, exempt from the current safety regulations in place in BC.
I purchased DOT rated tyres, passed a safety inspection, and then tried to register it.
ICBC will not let me transfer it into my name or even take the transfer taxs involved in the sale.
ICBC contacted a CVSE representative, and based on pictures, and google images, CVSE decided it was not possible for it to pass a safety inspection because it doesnt have all the safety features necessary for today's standards.
CVSE went to the safety inspection facility and threatened to fine the mechanic and pull the operation license from the company if they did not surrender my inspection paperwork.
I did not want to cause drama for the inspection company so i returned my paperwork to the company and then they surrendered it to CVSE.
Because ICBC and CVSE are refusing to acknowledge that it is a antique vintage motor vehicle it may also not be exempt from the Armoured Vehicle and After-Market Compartment Control Act in place in BC.
It has been very frustrating that ICBC and CVSE will not follow the laws in BC based on their personal dislike of the appearance of this vehicle.
Despite ill informed rumours, i have never driven my ferret in BC, and i am quite annoyed how it hasn't done anything more then idle in my driveway.

[Robin Craig]

Patrick,

Great write up. I would like to help you, and have some suggestions, can you please contact me by email please.

[Patrick B]

Thanks Robin. PM sent.

[Dave D.]

I made contact with a pile of departments today and met people that are really struggling with this. The faces answering the phones put me on hold continuously trying to find out what's going on. They were extremely professional and even apologetic at not having the answers.

SAAQ put me on hold the longest and Mileana worked very hard continuously putting me on hold to ask for confirmation from the big head on the table.

I'll start at the end of my adventure today because this is where folks should start. These next folks asked for pictures and measurements of my truck, bus, car or whatever I choose to bring to Quebec.

It's the same info above but I'll do it again because these are the folks that will keep my truck out of the court system when I visit Quebec.

The only difference in direction was asking me to fill out the online form. I didn't limit myself to that and using all aspects of comms works terrific.

If everyone sends pictures and information about your vehicles to these fine folks you'll find out if Quebec is as friendly as we know it is. They're asking for feedback before they decide what to do with this is what I know.

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/en...ontact-us.aspx

""""""""""""""""""By mail

Ministère des Transports
Service Québec 511
500, boul. René-Lévesque Ouest, bureau 4.010
Montréal (Québec) H2Z 1W7
By telephone

Anywhere in Québec: 511
Elsewhere in North America: 1 888 355-0511

By secure email

Use the Ministère’s online form to send us:

requests for information
reports
claims for damages – see the procedureDocument au format PDF (193 Ko)
complaints
complaints pertaining specifically to neighbourhood annoyances (OHV)
comments

Make sure to fill out clearly the fields marked with an asterisk.

All requests must be processed within the time frame specified in the Ministère’s service statement (in French only).

Please note that any message containing insulting or hateful remarks will remain unanswered. We also reserve the right to forward any threatening message to the competent authorities. """"""""""""""""""'





I need to make travel plans so I started with the Alberta Motor Association Travel Bureau. They didn't know anything about HMV travel in Quebec and eventually suggested I call the RCMP. They already know what most HMV groups and collectors do and had no knowledge of any restrictions, other than criminal. They suggested I call SAAQ directly.

As mentioned Mileana from SAAQ was wonderful but eventually she determined SAAQ wasn't sure and was certain SQ would have a list of vehicles I could visit Quebec with.

SAAQ asked me a lot of questions and the back ground noise made me suspect they were very busy at the time. She asked if the vehicle I was bringing to Quebec could be used for off-road or had a weapon mounting point. I thought about the video of our 1966 GMC Coach bus driving through the farm field, the gun rack in the CUCV and behind the deuce seat as well as the 50 cal mount brackets on the cab, so I said yes. She laughed when I told her about the bus and replied, "I guess any vehicle can be used off-road".

Since SAAQ didn't know if I can visit in my HMV, with their suggestion I move on to SQ.

SQ
https://www.google.com/search?client...=quebec+police
1-819-772-3048


I call SQ to ask if I can come visit Quebec in a historical vehicle. The fine gent on the phone didn't know anything about any new legislation that changed the way they operate so he really wasn't sure. He said he wouldn't want to leave me stranded on the side of the road in Quebec with bad information so he's helping us look for answers.

He was real certain the folks that push legislation through would have an answer and after a few hours of direct calls, I finally got a toll free number.
I call Service Quebec. 1-888-355-0511
https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr...s-joindre.aspx

Carol over at Service Quebec was disappointed that he really didn't have an answer either. I'm not saying I got a personal invite to come visit him in any vehicle I wanted but that was the sentiment.

https://aqtr.com/association/a-propo...tale-nationale
418-643-6903

While we prepare a complete list of vehicles for the Transport minister, a partial list has already gone over to the Minister of Tourism asking if I'm welcome in Quebec in my HMV?

After speaking with several departments today it is clear that more people need to know about this. Hearing the replies today from the beautiful French accents saying they're disappointed and don't know enough about the restrictions to help me is a sad state of affairs.

Quebec supports 400,000 people in the tourism industry. That would already put pressure on a Finance portfolio so I'm guessing we need to let the Finance Minister know we're not sure if our money is going to Quebec.

W5 folks, who knows an investigative journalist that gets paid to hustle documentation paths? The folks that should have the info are getting the info last and an AIA account for Access to Information would be a bonus.

Onward,

Who wants a map of some of the coolest Cold War sites to visit on their way through Quebec?

These sites were all essentially abandoned in 1968 and some don't even exist anymore.

Our plans for travel included photography of Cold War era vehicles at sites throughout Quebec. Those sites in essence, helped protect the continent to this very day.

The Culture and Heritage in Quebec also belong to my parents and their parents, paying taxes to support all of Quebec and especially in the Continuity of Government.

Did anyone call the Cultural Minister yet? I'm cramming French lessons but just getting past greetings and things like, where's the washroom. . . . . .

Don't let me stop anyone from following up on these numbers and asking if you're Welcome in Quebec!

[rob love]

I believe that all the provinces as well as the US states have reciprocal agreements re vehicles on the road. I think, for the most part, that if your vehicles is registered for full road use in your province, then it is fine to travel through any other province. I have read that in the US, some states have outright blocked on-road registration for HMMWVs, yet guys who are out of state can drive their HMMWVs through the states that don't allow on-road registration.



Hopefully your calls will lead to some common sense at some point.



Re the safety of the ex-military vehicles, I have owned and driven my military vehicles for over 40 years, and the one accident that happened was in no way my fault, and my passenger and myself both walked away, despite the other vehicle being a lot heavier. And with about 5 minutes work, the Jeep drove the rest of the trip. Autopac wrote the vehicle off and let me buy it back for not much money. Basically, I got paid $1100 (in 1985 dollars) and I was able to push the body back using a couple blocks of wood and a screw jack, and had to replace the fender and hood. I think it was under an hours work....easiest thousand bucks I ever made.

[Dave D.]

Is my HMV welcome in Quebec?

I'm hoping to get an answer fairly soon before all the leaves freeze and blow off the trees.

Here's a little snippet of an email for the tourism minister. I'll follow up with phone calls after Monday and let them talk among themselves over the labour day long weekend.

Caroline Proulx,
http://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/deputes/p...ml?appelant=MC


For the Public Record.



I am a member of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association (MVPA), the Alberta Aviation Museum and President of the Canadian Civil Defence Museum Association writing to you in a personal capacity at this time.

It is important I bring your attention to SAAQ restrictions recently imposed on various types of vehicles. The restrictions limit certain types of vehicles on roads posted under 70-kph.
https://www.journaldequebec.com/2019...KZkgLNcyZW9A-U

"""""""The Société de l 'assurance automobile du Québec has decided to limit the use of these vehicles on public roads where the speed limit is equal to or less than 70 km / h. They will be able to cross at a right angle a road where the limit is higher, but they will now be banned from highways, as well as on provincial roads where the limit is 90 km / h.""""""""""

The selection of vehicles included in these restrictions isn't clear. I began to inquire about traveling to Quebec to visit family in one of my Historic Military or Civilian Vehicles.

My friend and neighbour, Nick Bulgar was killed in Afghanistan in protection of Brig.-Gen. Jonathan Vance ten years ago. Since that time I have freely traveled in Historical Military tribute vehicles and participated in Historical Military Vehicle events. My personal collection includes Civilian type vehicles that were purchased by the Canadian Military and painted green.

The organizations listed above preserve, restore and display Canadian and Continental history. The MVPA has worked tirelessly since the mid 1970's to ensure safety and public education were primary roles among its membership.

Today I contacted SAAQ for clarification and Mileana was very helpful. They did not have a list of vehicles that were prohibited or restricted but sent me along to the folks that would 1-819-722-3048. This is the department that needs to enforce the traffic rules. This was the first time they had heard of the Quebec provincial restriction and suggested I talk to Service Quebec at 1-888-355-0511. Carol was unaware of any restrictions to travelers and visitors in Quebec and suggested I talk to the Quebec Minister of Transport, 418-643-6903.

Since this "restriction" was received in writing to registered vehicle owners and became effective on August 22nd of 2019, I was certain other departments would have known about it. After speaking with Sophia with transport Quebec it isn't clear if I'm welcome in Quebec as a visitor.

I have a grand selection of vehicles to choose from including:

1956 GMC 6x6 that served in Wainwright for 3 decades on Emergency Measures Organization standby in the event of a National Emergency.

1953 GMC 6x6 from Penhold Base that served as a cargo truck, transporting goods and Canadian Military Members in training.

1954 GMC 6x6 Shop Van. This vehicle was available to the Canadian Reserves in Yellowknife for decades and could have been a work shop or even a command center for communications.

1966 GMC Coach Bus. This Bus was purchased new by Calgary Transit and was later adapted as a fire department bus to house victims of fire. It currently performs at Airshows from Edmonton to Red Deer Alberta, on highways, doing the speed limit.

1951 Chevy Suburban. The Suburban was purchased by the Canadian Military as a civilian vehicle and painted green. This was a cold war car driven around Alberta since 1951. It was purchased through auction from Surplus Canada over 40 years ago and has remained in the family since that time. It's role was light cargo and service member transport.

Other vehicles at my disposal for travel include units that were auctioned by Canada GC surplus to the general population for the good of the greater public. The LSVW, the Iltis built by Bombardier and many other styles of very reliable Vehicles appear to be a part of a restriction list. The MVPA has a great number of videos available online of the various vehicles we have operated across this continent and around the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oZvPqNZxKg

Can you please tell if I am welcome in Quebec in my Historical Military Vehicle?

[chris vickery]

Hopefully fellow collectors in Quebec don't panic. I foresee the potential unfortunately for a sudden glut in the Canadian
market for historic MVs if they decide to start dumping vehicles in hopes to recoup. Typical government BS without thought and another step into certain agenda for Canadians.

[chris vickery]

Bill, totally understandable. My point in saying not to panic was suggestive to stay tuned and hope things work out. It is indeed troubling and always an uphill battle whenever dealing with bureaucratic nonsense. In this case the reasons and arguments presented by the SAAQ don’t make much sense.
It has been a battle south of the border as well in some US States that tried to push restrictive legislation upon antique vehicle owners. Unfortunately we live in a new world of do gooders who choose to flex their muscle and collective mindset on the rest of us. It’s a matter of fight or throw in the towel but I really do get it. It’s been the same uphill battle for Canadian firearm owners for a long time and will continue in the foreseeable future. I used to argue at the gun club with fellow Members who did not see the reason I needed a military type firearm; guys who should have been on the same page as we were all in it together. Look how that narrow mindedness has filtered down to the average hunter for example. The public views his firearm the same way- a gun is a gun and you don't need it no matter the reason. Antique auto clubs should be on our side, their cars will be next on the chopping block. Certainly food for thought the next time someone stands on their soapbox extolling their personal virtues in the name of public good.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by rob love

Does Quebec have an access to information law? Could one not request copies of any relevant information, including the letters, that gave cause to enact these policies?

See my link in post#15.

[M38CDNBill]

Hi,

I have a question asking by a fellow friend impacted by the new SAAQ ministerial decree. Is it possible to drive on Ontario roads an HMV that has a C-plate?

Cheers

[rob love]

Perhaps that is a question he should ask his insurance company (is that the SAAQ?). Would they still insure him if he was involved in an accident while on a road (in another province) that does not meet the restrictions set out in Quebec as a C license vehicle.

[chris vickery]

Sounds like maybe someone should inquire with Haggarty or maybe try to get them on side with this issue in Quebec
And BTW, the QC government argument against gangs and armoured vehicle is as stupid as the Fed stance on firearms.
I somehow doubt very much that criminals would give a crap about licensing requirement if they were in a position to use one.

[Patrick B]

Is there any way to challenge the changes made by SAAQ? perhaps a class action lawsuit?
I imagine the new changes will hurt the value of the effected vehicles.

[Wayne Hingley]

It will probably take a provincial election to clear all this mess up. This is the same government that brought in a provincial firearm registry last winter, is it not? They are giving other parties a winning platform to take up in the next election.

[Patrick B]

Originally Posted by Stuart Fedak

A Facebook group has been created to raise funds for a class action and infringement of rights. The focus at the moment is to just restore registration rights.

Several individuals have used their lawyers to file appeals. Others are using the SAAQ appeal process. Others have used their lawyers to request source documents (access to information).

One group has arranged a face to face meeting with the Minister responsible for the SAAQ, which should happen this week. They will be presenting documents to support their individual vehicles and that proper due process was not done by SAAQ.

can you post a link to the Facebook group please.