FV603 Saracen

[Robin Craig]

The big number on the bottom of the images is the museum asset number which starts with the year of acquisition, formally now it is 1970.0157 but in those days photos didn't have the first two digits of the year, now they do.

My impression is that this was a very overloaded and cramped vehicle with the system mounted on top and all the technical bits stuffed inside and in the boxes on the sides.

To say overloaded and cumbersome would be accurate. What I did note was not one trace of any kind of CFR and the clear evidence of the Vehicle Registration Number from the UK MOD, 80 BA 52 on the nose and on the data plate.

[Robin Craig]

The pictures of the Saracen at Cohens and then later at Prefair are not very clear but Ed Storey had noted that it was 30 BA 07 and I have confirmed that through another means. Add to that the clearly visible 80 BA 52 for the one at CMST.

I spent some time once I got home cruising the net with Google and came up a winner unexpectedly.

The National Research Council of Canada has images online. Here are 80 BA 52 the one in CMST

[Robin Craig]

And more, this shot is quite important as it shows something significant, in my view, an Ontario licence plate 5559F.

[Robin Craig]

Also on the NRC site are pictures of the other Saracen, bingo, this is the Cohens / Prefair vehicle, which had the radar removed. More on that later.

So this is 30 BA 07 and has the Ontario plate of 11584F.

These Ontario plates explain why there was no CFR visible or holes for a CFR plate.

[Robin Craig]

The data plate for the base vehicle and that for the radar itself were both found in my visit and here they are.

My suspicion is that the second vehicle 30 BA 07 had the radar removed and it was put on to an M113 and now I need the picture I cant find it again, go figure. I would speculate that the cost of doing this was big and only one was done and then something else came along as the new flavour of the time and things were shelved. It is pure speculation at this time.

[Bob Carriere]

HI Robin

There was a second Saracen at one time on the St Laurent rear compound.....strangely both middle wheel assembly/suspension had been removed although present nearby...... the inside, from the back door, was totally empty of any testing/radar equipment....... there was no top side antenna on that one....... and not far away was the original Bras D'Or hydrofoil slowly rotting away under multilayers of decaying tarps.

Security in the early 1970 was non existent....... the old Morrison Lamothe bread plant, which later became the Museum, was open to numerous dead end rail lines which were not gated.

Back then Osgoode had a yard with half a dozen Mosquitoes with the fuselage spine broken in two ...... Crown asset used a heavy steel plate suspended from a crane and let her drop...... cases of RR engines....... which were worthless due to their aluminum content that was cheap back then... a stack of engine exhaust manifold were rescued and eventually shipped to Australia.....then there was the junk yard in Kemptville which had two Churchill tanks.... bridge layers for seawalls.... one of which is at the CWM..... the other one was cut up for scrap......and tons of USA multifuel Coleman double ended aircraft tugs.... both tanks were complete with full Bedford engine packs and internal firing stations........

....and then you still had the whole Quebec side of the river with more yards to explore.... some were almost downtown.

Cheers

[rob love]

I have had a few dealings with the type of radar unit in question, the AN/MPQ501. I had a request from someone thru the chain of command wanting photos of the radar and of the APCs that had them mounted. I informed the requester that there was actually a AN/MPQ501 sitting about 40 feet form my desk, just outside the fire exit. I also drove one of the APCs that used to have the radar setup on it during my TQ3 course in Borden. I remembered it because the hatches were relocated.

He talked about coming out to the museum, but I pointed out to him that there is still a loose 501 sitting at the science and tech museum. I didn't know about the vehicle mounted one.

The 501 was touted as being fairly advanced when they first came out around 1957. The NRC had a few that they were trying to upgrade in the early to mid 60s. By the 70s, they were well past their prime, and eventually the radar units were removed from the carriers.

In the end, I was not able to help the fellow with any photos of the APC with the radar. He was especially interested n the topside. Does anyone here have any photos they would share?