How To: C15a Wire-3 restoration

[Jordan Baker]

Managed to get the bellhousing off the other day. The clutch came out easily enough. However the fly wheel was another story. After trying a wrench and successfully smashing my thumb, I stopped for the day

The next day I decided to fire up the compressor and use my air gun. I should have used it first as all the bolts were out in less time then it took to smash my thumb. Lesson learned. The bellhousing then came off easily enough.

I then decided to use some oven cleaner to start degreasing the engine. I've read online it's good for also removing the old paint. It not so much with the brand I bought. Post Christmas I'll come up with something else to use.

My next big task will be removing the bell housing from the other engine and getting it cleaned up.

[Lang]

Jordan

As someone said, it will be a miracle if the canvas fits. It can be stretched!

I recently put a new canopy on a jeep - brand new but 25 years old. It was 6 inches too short at the back.

I got a half dozen concrete blocks (breeze blocks, besser blocks or whatever you call them used for wall building and about 15/20lbs each) and attached them to the straps at the rear with the canvas on the jeep attached to the windscreen as per normal. Sprayed with water each day and after 3 days I had regained the full length! You would think it impossible but it worked and 6 months later has retained its proper length.

If you run into this problem I would suggest you try the long term stretching method - it does require decent weights over a few days and you will probably have to do both N/S and E/W..

Lang

[Jordan Baker]

Some more "stuff" arrived today. A whole bunch of antenna mast pegs.

[Jordan Baker]

It's been too cold outside to really do much. However today I managed to tuff it out with the help of a Hester and got these engine parts sandblasted. I'm planning on painting them with some DOM16 (Cnd version if POR15) gloss black.

[Jordan Baker]

Finished painting the parts last week. I brought them inside for painting since it was pretty cold out in the shop. Only heard a few comments about a slight paint smell.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Jordan

As I he had very good luck finding the fan with my fingers, in the dark cramped engine conpartments of CMPs I've taken to painting the first 2 inches front back of all fans either white or red.

Dam that smarts, been lucky nothing more than minor cuts and bruises but after it happened the second time got out the paint.

Just a thought

Cheers Phil

[Jordan Baker]

I've thought about painting the tips a different colour. I may still go back and do that.

Today afternoon task was pulling apart the generator and figuring out what I need for a rebuild. New bearing, bushing and brushes are a for sure. I'd love to find a small parts rebuild kit but they don't seem to exist.

[Grant Bowker]

Rebuild kits exist for 1955-65 Chevrolet generators https://www.danchuk.com/ItemForm.aspx?Item=1843 so perhaps for the earlier ones too?
One source says "not currently available" for 40-54 generators https://www.chevsofthe40s.com/detail...ts_Etc_41.html
Googling "6 volt delco generator rebuild kit" produces quite a few results, it seems to matter what the part number for the assembled generator is....

[Jordan Baker]

I was looking at those kits. I wish the Chevys of the 40's was available.

[Jordan Baker]

This model after looking it up in the C15a-4 Illustrated Parts Catalogue is Delco Remy generator assy 1102695. It has a bearing on the drive end and a bushing on the commutator end.

[Jordan Baker]

Tear down of the generator continued today. Everything has been disassembled and the major parts parts sandblasted. The commutator was cleaned up on a lathe. The field coils will be re wrapped as well. All of the small screws are being soaked in parts cleaner then in evaporust to clean them up. I'll be ordering a new fully sealed bearing for the drive end. I just need to find a couple of smaller bits and I should be good to go again.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Jordan

There are a number of NOS field coils available as new kits or old stock on Ebay around $30.00.

Might not be a bad idea to look for a spare one if you are determined to stay with 6 volts. A lot of the fiddly parts are common to Delco for tractor so a local farm tractor dealer....particularly the ones dealing with antique tractors will have loose parts that you can compare without using the darn computer.

I got brushes and springs for a few dollars from a Massey dealer which is familiar with Delco/Massey usage..... same for starters and distributors, bushings, points, caps and rotors.

Keep it sparking.

[Jordan Baker]

The past day or so has been spent working on the starter. Broke it all down to its components. New rebuild parts are ordered. The casing, front section and end plate have all been sandblasted and painted with semi-gloss black as per the originals. Once back together this should crank the engine nicely. One unfortunate discovery was that the one main connection on the field coil was broken. I'm checking with the company I've ordered the rebuild kits from to see if they have matching field coils. If not I'll go the eBay route and try and find a matching one.

[Jordan Baker]

I'm always amazed at just how many individual parts go into making the vehicles we all love. An example being the copper stud in the starter. It's simple in what it does but takes 8 pieces to do it.

Also you can see where the copper band snapped/corroded away on the field coil. They should be easy to make match last part I noticed was the starter lever. The little contact points were rather heavily worn. I'll be checking the other starters I have to see what condition they are in. If all are similar I figure I'll just rotate them a bit to an unworn section.

[Frank v R]

I may have some NOS field coils , I'll let you know,

[Bob Carriere]

...can be expected after 75 years of being stomped on....

The starter lever, the two little round pill contact points are rpobably still quite usable..... mine were really worn by a 1/3 and I welded them then cleaned up with a dremel grinder. Some times later I found one on EBay NOS that I now have as a spare. The contact box that fits on top of your starter, the one with the copper contacts are also readily available and work replacing at this stage.

If you get new field coils they usually come as a pair fully assembled as a unit.

Good Luck.

[Jordan Baker]

Awesome Frank. I'm waiting to hear back from the rebuild place. I did find an NOS wartimeone one on eBay in Australia. This version came with two separate left and right side field coils. They are only "joined" together when soldered to the copper stud. I've also found others with different part numbers that are apparently the same.

I'll also be replacing the starting motor switch that sits on top of the starter.

[Jordan Baker]

and just heard back from the rebuild shop. He will have a set of coils for me next week.

[Shaun Mastin]

hey mate

whats the go with re wrapping the fields , I'm in Australia, haven't heard about this do you do it yourself? , I need to do mine
thanks shaun

[Jordan Baker]

Shaun, this was the link I used for rebuilding my jeeps generator when it had a total bearing failure. I still refer to it today as it is a great step by step.

http://willys.be/info/WOA5992US/WOA5992US.html

[Jordan Baker]

Finally started in on rebuilding the starter today. Brand new field coils were used along with NOS field coils screws. Its amazing just how hard these screws are to get out and then back in again. For removal I made up a tool to use in my impact air gun. Worked great for getting them out. However it wrecked the tops by chewing them up. For getting the field coil shoes back in just as tight I use the long nut and the two bolts as a kind of screw in wedge. I screw the screws in as tight as I can, then place the wedge in and turn it so it presses against both shoes. I can then normally get another 1-1/2 to 2 turns in the screw.

The copper leads were then pushed and pulled into shape and soldered into the copper stud.

[David Dunlop]

Nice work, Jordan.

David

[Jordan Baker]

Came home from work this morning and decided to finish the rebuild on the starter. All in all it went together without any issues.

Next up will be the generator.....but first some lunch.

[chris vickery]

Nice work Jordan. Did you do anything to the armature? eg undercutting the mica?

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks Chris.

No the armature was in great shape. Just polished it up a tad on a lathe.


I’ve now started in on the generator rebuild but will have to wait again while I search out some new parts. While checking some things I discovered the armature is showing fully open with an ohm meter between the shaft and commutator and the body of it. I believe that this means the armature is no good.

The parts manual calls for 1879002. This seems to cross reference to the following via searching in the web.

1921235
1877806
1932900
1963977

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks to ebay I managed to find the parts I needed for very reasonable prices and free shipping with the states. I had gotten rather frustrated looking for the generator field coils using he parts numbers from the parts book. However I stumbled onto a wed site with a period Delco Remy parts crossover. The individual left and right coils x-ref’d to s single number. A quick check on eBay produced a pile of NOS parts.

In the meantime while I’m waiting for this parts I decided to start the pulling apart of the transmission. Everything is coming apart nicely and I’ve got some bits soaking in parts cleaner to remove the 75 year old grease/oil. I’m really glad Bob Carrier posted that link to those hard to remove shaft seals and that I picked up a couple of them. Removing the original destroyed it.
A coupe of the gears have some minor rusting but I feel these should still clean up alright and be good to go. I’m also planning on replacing the bearings. Would it be best to use fully sealed ones?

[Grant Bowker]

Possible problems with sealed bearings:
Fully sealed, you will be relying on the grease within the bearing only, no transmission oil will get in, so new oil in the transmission only helps the gears, same old lubricant in the bearings.
Sealed one side (outer face), solves the issue above but no lubricant reaches the original style seals to help them slide on the shaft so they are likely to have a shorter life.
My choice would be new seals, separate from the bearing, running on original shaft (as long as it shows no grooving). I forget whether the gear clusters are one piece or pressed onto the shafts. If they are pressed assemblies, adding speedisleeves to repair scored shafts could make them difficult to take apart if you ever need to separate the cluster. But on the mileage we do on restored trucks what are the chances of that?

[Jordan Baker]

Ok thanks Grant. What you’ve said makes sense.

Work continued on the generator rebuild today. I picked up a small parts kit from the place in Texas. NOS field coils were sourced on eBay. I also found what I thought was a correct armature but it ended up not being correct. However after some more internet searching I found a correct one in Canada. Hopefully it arrives next week. Some fiddling may still be needed in getting the coils to seat down properly. I also buffed the brush holder and it cleaned up very well considering what it looked like when I pulled it apart. Lastly nothing like using a 10ton press to press in the oiler caps.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

Possible problems with sealed bearings:
Fully sealed, you will be relying on the grease within the bearing only, no transmission oil will get in, so new oil in the transmission only helps the gears, same old lubricant in the bearings.
Sealed one side (outer face), solves the issue above but no lubricant reaches the original style seals to help them slide on the shaft so they are likely to have a shorter life.
My choice would be new seals, separate from the bearing, running on original shaft (as long as it shows no grooving). I forget whether the gear clusters are one piece or pressed onto the shafts. If they are pressed assemblies, adding speedisleeves to repair scored shafts could make them difficult to take apart if you ever need to separate the cluster. But on the mileage we do on restored trucks what are the chances of that?

I, too, have pondered whether to leave the seals or not. Really, for all the miles we will ever put on, the grease within the bearings will be more than enough. I have also removed just the seal on the oil side. I normally pack a little grease into the output seal, so my take on it is if there is not enough lubricant over time that the output seal suffers, then the seal really isn't necessary.

Where these sealed bearings really shine is on the input shafts of the transmissions, especially the Ford CMPs and the Willys Jeeps, neither of which has a particularly effective seal.

[Jordan Baker]

While waiting for the armature to arrive I’ve decided to pull apart the transmission. Following the steps in the maintenance manual everything came apart as it should. All looks really good. Tomorrow will be spent cleaning up the housing and degreasing the gears.