Wanted: ram/sexton tank drivers hatch

[Colin Alford]

Gents,

I have been aware of this matter for approx. 1 1/2 years now but was purposefully keeping quiet.

The remains of the vehicles were pulled off of the ranges in the early fall of 2016. Their fate is still somewhat in question due to differing interpretations of regulations regarding approved methods for the disposal of Hard Targets.

There are a few of us in the local area that have been attempting to exert the necessary pressure to ensure that these items are not just scrapped as there are many useable parts.

A rough inventory:
4 Rams (2 hulls largely intact, 2 very blasted),
2 HVSS Shermans,
1 Centurion,
1 Chaffee (turret not recovered yet),
1 Leopard 1 hull; and
3 AVGPs.

Shortly before Christmas there was another appeal made which hopefully will help gain some traction.

Colin

[maple_leaf_eh]

Thank you for the local context. It is important that these pieces not leave the camp and end up in a smelter. Who gets what after that, will be the arm wrestling match of the decade.

[Colin Alford]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

.... It is important that these pieces not leave the camp and end up in a smelter. Who gets what after that, will be the arm wrestling match of the decade.

Terry, I completely agree with you.

Colin

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Colin Alford

Gents,

...

The remains of the vehicles were pulled off of the ranges in the early fall of 2016. Their fate is still somewhat in question due to differing interpretations of regulations regarding approved methods for the disposal of Hard Targets.

...

Colin

Interesting observation on risk and hazard minimization by the Base.

Not that I don't have a real job to do, I found:

B-GL-381-003/TS-000,
RANGE AND UNEXPLODED EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE (UXO) CLEARANCE HANDBOOK, dated 15 Mar 2008

In definitions,

"r. Munitions Scrap (MS). All by-products resulting from the functioning of ammunition. This includes empty shell casings, projectiles, launchers, shrapnel, pieces of fuse, and all similar objects. Target vehicles, although of a non-munitions origin, shall be considered as munitions scrap because of the risk of hidden or residual munitions or items of an explosive nature contained within or near the target. (emphasis by me) For range/UXO clearance purposes, fragments and objects readily identifiable by nomenclature as EO (carrier shells, casings, etc) are reported and recorded as part of the SUM to the CSM to provide definable information for site characterization. May also be referred to as munitions
debris."

[David Dunlop]

Hi Terry.

So the concern would be that, for example, a 20mm explosive round might have bored into some part of the target vehicle and failed to detonate. So all the bits are off limits until a determination can be made that no such risk exists?

David

[rob love]

It is more than just that David. Any range that the Americans may have visited could have traces of depleted uranium rounds used on them. We may have experimented with the stuff back in the 60s as well. Then there is the usual myriad of chemical residue associated with munitions including treats such as phosphorous and chemical agents. Beyond the physical inspection, it could also require decontamination.

[David Dunlop]

Thanks, Rob.

Do you think any of those Rams might be a Skink hull, or was that vehicle on a completely different range?

David

[Bob Carriere]

.....with the risk and cost involved with the determination that it has no UXO stuck in there....... and the possibility that a perfectly good sound wheel sprocket might be radioactive......... the only safe disposal is to bury it on a DND site........loose the paperwork of where it was buried........ and the objects will be rediscovered years from now when the DND site is closed and awaits for the ground to be decontaminated.

What a shame ......... history down the drain.

Bob C.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by David Dunlop

Thanks, Rob.

Do you think any of those Rams might be a Skink hull, or was that vehicle on a completely different range?

David

Skinks were on grizzly hulls. And, of course, there were very few completed examples. There are quite a number of the turrets that have been pulled off the ranges, but most (if not all) were unfinished raw castings rather than completed and installed examples. The loose turret here in Shilo falls into that category.