Info needed: correct colours for WWII Aust vehicles

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

But that is just reiterating a scheme from 301 as put in Jan 1942....I don't understand how that is a new scheme ???

Gina the operative words are: "This circular supersedes and cancels Mechanization Circulars No.301, 309 as applicable and 311."

The context of MC 319 is Army taking back control of camo policy from DHS (ie. Dakin). The original DHS schemes under MC 301 had proven impractical - too many colours, too many schemes, lousy paint quality in the field, general difficulties with painting in the field, supply of materials etc, and most importantly, Light Stone disruptive found too conspicuous in Australian landscapes. The challenge for Army was to develop a SINGLE, STANDARDIZED scheme, suitable for the widest possible range of landscapes, which could be applied IN PRODUCTION. They decided on Light Earth disruptive, and at the same time they darkened KG3.

Sorry if I came across hostile, not my intention all. You're doing excellent work, just need to get all our ducks in a row. It will take a while, this is a horrendously complex subject. That's why no one has managed to write a book yet!

re Steve Taubert's work - like you I'd prefer to see the original docs for verification, but they're not appropriate for publication (old, tattered, torn, overwritten, faded, illegible, etc). Same considerations will apply to any book on camo, eg. pattern charts cleaned up for presentation, and possibly even coloured. Mike will be able to advise on publishing aspects.

I shall keep feeding you the relevant docs, which thanks to you I've been able to access and organize in the comfort of my living room, while you do all the legwork!

[Mike K]

I have a suggestion: this thread header should be

ITS ACADEMIC

[Mike K]

A still from a colour film, Bougainville ( no, not the Northern Melbourne suburb where Chopper Read came from , that is Thomastown ) .

I can see a dark green and a lightish brown colour , the two colour camo ?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I can see a dark green and a lightish brown colour , the two colour camo ?

I don’t think so Mike, just single colour Dark Green. You can see it better in my screenshot. I discovered how to do screenshots a while back, they're so much easier than photos and much better result. You should try it, just google "screenshot" for instructions.

Second pic shows the difference between Dark Green and KG3. You can see why NG Force (and NT Force) preferred Dark Green, it matches the jungle foliage so much better than KG3. US Olive Drab was much greener than KG3 too.

Last two pics show 2/11 Fd. Regt. equipment which does appear to be NG Force scheme. Rather scruffy by that stage but blends in well I reckon.


F03437-1 NG Force C15A Dark Green wet.jpg

F03437 NG Force 60S tipper KG3 wet with 60L GS Dark Green.jpg

144 - Copy (Medium).jpg

F03437 2-11 Fd Regt NG Force camo scheme (2).jpg

F03437 2-11 Fd Regt NG Force camo scheme.jpg

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

I don’t think so Mike, just single colour Dark Green. You can see it better in my screenshot.
]

Yes , the darker shade is where the water has splashed up , I should have spotted that . There may be some dusty dirt on the dryer area , the matt paint really comes to life and reveals its true colour when it is wet . Did you see the dark green YMCA Ford Vans ? The Jeep in the opening minutes is also a very dark green .

The screen shot , good tip there.

Colour 1942 WANGARATTA https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C190905

[Mike K]

Appears to be a British colour scheme 1941 ? Malaya . The car looks like a Chev so its Australian paint ?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Appears to be a British colour scheme 1941 ? Malaya . The car looks like a Chev so its Australian paint ?

Yes Mike it's KG3 with Dark Tarmac disruptive (standard British disruptive colour at the time). Looks like the KG3 was repainted at the same time, presumably British stocks were used. I have another image which shows 8th Div formation sign, plus B&W image showing this scheme.

8th Div staff car Malaya 1941 (note camo).jpg

009341 1941-08. MALAYA CROSSING A MALAYAN RIVER. AUSTRALIAN ARMY TRANSPORT. (NEGATIVE BY M. NIC.JPG

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

the matt paint really comes to life and reveals its true colour when it is wet .

Indeed it does Mike, I'm always on the lookout for colour film of wet vehicles, eg. parades in the rain. I hadn't considered vehicles in rivers!

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Did you see the dark green YMCA Ford Vans ?

I certainly did Mike, and it looks like factory paint to me. What do you think? We know from correspondence that Dark Green was the preferred base colour for vehicle camo by late '42, eg. Dark Green M specified for NT Force and NG Force schemes, and NSW LOC Area scheme using "Dark Green 3" which was KG3 with 1/8 Night Black U added, then special colours developed like "Black Green" and finally the adoption of "Vehicle Dark Green". It's possible this colour entered production alongside KG3 for vehicles bound for NG, and decisions re disruptive colour left to GOC in the field. On the other hand it generally wasn't known at production stage where vehicles were destined to go, so perhaps they were refinished at BOD where high standard paintwork was the norm. Whatever the case there do seem to be plenty of Dark Green vehicles seen in operational areas by 1945.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

They decided on Light Earth disruptive, and at the same time they darkened KG3.

This was decided at Wesley meeting 13 June 42 after vehicle inspection. Unfortunately the report states Light Stone in error, but thankfully they got the alpha code correct. Which begs the question of Steve Taubert's policy of NOT correcting errors. It's a key doc which must be included.


covernote Wesley College inspection 13 June 42 Light Earth adopted KG3 darkened.jpg

corrected Wesley College inspection 13 June 42 Light Earth adopted KG3 darkened.jpg

Wesley College inspection 13 June 42 Light Earth adopted KG3 darkened.jpg

[Tony Wheeler]

Gina you’ll find some useful background material in the work of art historian Ann Elias:

https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/journal/j38/camouflage

para 3:
By 1942 there were so many protests − particularly from the Army − about Dakin’s interference in military matters that a new arrangement had to be made. Finally, each of the services took control of its own camouflage operation, leaving the Defence Central Camouflage Committee to act as their advisory body only. The camouflage research station at George’s Heights, set up by the Department of Home Security for experimentation, was handed over to the Army.

para 21:
Early in 1942 the Army separated from the camouflage organisation set up by the Department of Home Security. This was certainly no loss to the Army since it had always trained its own camouflage officers, either at the Camouflage Wing at George’s Heights organised by the Army School of Military Engineering, or through camouflage training units run by the Royal Australian Engineers.

“Once the army had decided to go its own way, the Department of Home Security soon found that its camouflage activities were mainly confined to the R.A.A.F., for after October 1942, when the threat of Japanese invasion had disappeared, all civil camouflage was discontinued.” (Camouflage Australia, Ann Elias 2011)

Her book Camouflage Australia contains some excellent photos with file refs that may yield info on the development of DHS camo colours and patterns.


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Elias REL 16500.jpg

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