Those elusive green reflectors......

[David Dunlop]

Hello Robert.

I believe you have misread the intent of my earlier post on this topic, but before I try and clarify what I was trying to say, let me first and foremost state I think it is great you have found a supply of these reflectors and I wish you every success in replicating this hard to find CMP item. To me, it ranks right up there with the GM Dashboard Jewel that was so hard to find for so many years and then finally got recreated.

I share exactly the same questions about these reflectors as you stated. It would be really nice to determine exactly when they came into use, why that happened, what subsequently came about to result in their being discontinued and when that actually happened. It does not help much that there are probably as many photos out there of all models of CMP’s with and without the front reflector bumpers. And for those CMP photos showing front reflector bumpers, it’s a crap shoot as to whether you can see a reflector mounted or just a big gaping hole.

We are now 70 years away from these mystery events. Trying to understand them is difficult. All we know for certain is the green reflectors came into being and then were discontinued. So what happened? I asked the questions about how they actually work as I haven’t a clue about that personally and if anyone out there does, please enlighten us. If one took a reflector equipped CMP into the dark of night and shone a light on the reflectors, how well do they actually work? Do they respond to a broad diffuse light or require a more concentrated stronger beam of light to activate. How much of a change in angle of the light source is required to activate them or stop them from working. And how well can their reflected light be seen by the driver sitting in an oncoming vehicle? If these kinds of tests confirmed these reflectors work brilliantly (no pun intended)., then we can probably rule out the notion they failed to operate as intended as the reason they were discontinued.

These reflectors are certainly mounted in a location on the vehicle where they could be easily fouled or damaged. Rob Love has already provided first hand experience to that problem, so perhaps that may have proved the reflectors downfall. Still nothing written in stone however,

When I mentioned that from the present perspective of us all living in the time we do, I was meaning we are all 70 years after the fact in regards to the production of the CMP’s. What we see on any given vehicle today is simply an endpoint. Just because a CMP we happen to own in the here and now is equipped with a front reflector bumper, does not automatically confirm that was the front bumper it always had, or that reflectors were ever fitted to it. Case in point.

In 1976 I bought a June 1944 built Chevrolet C15A Wire 5 Truck. I knew nothing about CMP’s at that time. It had a large hole on the front face of the front bumper, at each end. I simply assumed these two holes had something to do with tow ropes or as aids to pulling another vehicle out of the mud, or some such thing and thought nothing more about them. The following summer, Peter Ford passed through town and stopped by to see the CMP. It was he who told me the two holes were for green reflectors. I thought that was really cool and started looking for some. Eventually found a pair of NOS ones from Peter Simundson. When they arrived, I was puzzled as there was no apparent way of mounting them. The front bumper on my CMP lacked the two holes top and bottom needed to bolt the reflector bracket in place. The following year when the bumper was sandblasted, still no holes. I later discovered enough bits of information about this particular CMP to suggest it had been shipped overseas during the war and been returned to Canada at some point post war. It served out its days with a local Militia Signals Unit. My point is that in it’s current present day form, visible to all of us, the front bumper suggested reflectors should have been on it. Yet there was no way of mounting them. Also, I cannot absolutely confirm or deny when exactly that particular CMP came to own the front bumper that was on it when I found it in 1976. Was it factory original, replaced overseas from available NOS or scavenged stock, or replaced back in Canada from NOS or scavenged stock?

It would not surprise me in the least that in the ‘off, on and off again’ cycle of the existence of these green reflectors, front CMP bumpers were produced in great numbers covering all available situations as they unfolded. It would also not surprise me at all that these various versions of the front bumper got intermixed for a variety of reasons from the factories out through all the various supply depots and were used in the most expedient way as needed. So as collectors and restorers of these vehicles, standing here in the present looking at their current form, we need to be wary not everything we see is as it should be.

So good luck with the project at hand, Robert, a new supply of these reflectors is definitely needed and I am glad you are looking into it.

Cheers,


David

[r.morrison]

David: Firstly, I apologise if I read your post the wrong way. Unfortunately, for this reader, I responded to what I read and obviously by your latest entry, I was interpreting it in another way. Be that it may, I appreciate your insight, as well as the constructive and enlightening comments by all the other members world wide. For one of those little "things" relating to this subject....great response by all! Again thanks very much for your help and your response......Robert

PS: And the fact that Mr Carriere has 2 green ones and NOT red ones.....well I can tell you, I will sleep better knowing this. R

[David Dunlop]

Apology accepted, Robert, and I must try to improve what I am trying to say sometimes. It is often a challenge attempting to be informative and concise, or informative and so long winded, your reader either loses interest, or must combine reading one's post while eating dinner.

While I think of it as well, do you know if these reflectors came about solely within the realm of the evolution of the CMP, or was it already a preexisting feature on all, or some British military transport prior to the arrival of the CMP? If British use predated, maybe the answers for why they came into being hide in British military records somewhere.

David

[Harlé Sylvain]

Hello

If I understand That holes on the bumper are for the reflectors?

Cheers
Sylvain

[rob love]

Yes, those holes are. The large one is where the green reflector sits, and the small holes top and bottom are where the reflector brackets bolt into place.

Later trucks have smaller holes in the same place at the end of the bumbers. The purpose of them is not known to me. I have them on my HUP bumper.

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by rob love

Later trucks have smaller holes in the same place at the end of the bumbers. The purpose of them is not known to me. I have them on my HUP bumper.

The smaller holes are a mystery, maybe for reducing the 'glow'? I have seen those green jewels with brackets with shorter mounting straps (5" vs. 6") which I assume were for HUPs. What the holes are probably not for is towing or rope/chain attachments. Holes that far out from the bumper mountings would bend the bumper before pulling the vehicle out of a hole.

[rob love]

I think that by the time HUPs were in production, the reflectors were pretty much out. Perhaps the shorter straps are for the C11as type bumpers as shown earlier in this thread.