How To: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car US Ordnance number 7373

[Big D]

More photos.

[super dave]

Looking good, You have come along ways

[Big D]

Hi Dave

Thanks for that. It feels like quite a journey so far. I feel like I'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief when the hull is done and off to the sandblasters.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Things have been a bit quiet with the restoration lately due to commitments with other projects, but I haven’t been completely idle and it is still progressing.

The work on the hull is continuing. I have a few parts arriving next month so will have bit of welding to do along with a few other things I am doing. I have the second headlight guard and the first aid kit bracket to be welded on, as well as some new exhaust mount brackets.

The rear engine support hull cross member had been removed at some point so I had a new piece of steel folded up into a channel type profile, which we will weld into place.

Unless I am lucky and find a front engine mount cross member (shown in the pictures) somewhere, I will need to get another piece of steel folded into a channel type profile, which I will cut and shape to form the cross member for the front engine supports.

I was a bit lucky with the oil can brackets for the engine bay. I acquired a good one (thanks Bill) and had another one (thanks Mathijs) for which I have fabricated the clip.

The tool lockers are nearly done. I had two in reasonable condition along with three that were really only good as donors. The reasonable ones looked like the moths had got to them though with lots of small holes in them, so I had to splice good bits of material from the other beaten up ones into these two. I found though that the pressed pattern in the donor tool lockers had a different spacing to the other ones, presumably from a manufacturing change, so I didn’t have as much good donor material as I thought. They don’t look too bad now though and they shouldn’t need much if any fibreglass.

I resurrected from the dead the two tool locker lids I had. One looked like it had been run over by a Sherman tank and the other was heavily corroded in places. Even after lots of straightening, the mangled one is pretty marginal really, but I’ll see how it looks with a blast and paint. I have sourced two nice looking repro lids from Belgium and they are on the way here, so that will complete the set.

While these wee jobs are going on in the background, I have started work on the turret. The turret was obviously a range target at some point and has a number of bullet holes in it which need to be filled.

The skirt around the base of the turret is also damaged in places but I have some replacement pieces which I have already cleaned up which I will cut to the right size and weld on.

I will also need to fabricate the steel rack around the exterior of the turret. Can anyone confirm the width of this steel strap? From what is left on the turret, it looks like 1 1/4" strap of about 1/4' thickness.

I also need to know how far it sits proud of the turret surface if someone can confirm please. It appears from photos that it is about 1 1/2” out from the turret but if someone can confirm, I'll get this fabricated as well.

Apart from that, the turret appears to be in reasonable shape.

[Big D]

More turret photos.

[James P]

That is pretty amazing work and fabrication you are doing on that M8, I salute your efforts and skills Did you weld in all the holes in the turret or save a couple as "battle damage" and its history ?

[Big D]

Hi James

Thanks for that. I debated keeping some of the holes but in the end decided I might as well fill them in. There are plenty of bullet damage marks on the turret which should tell its story. I figure those bigger holes are from .50 cal or similar. There are even bits of copper still in the holes. There are a lot of lines of smaller dents on the turret which haven't penetrated the steel, from what I figure is lower calibre MG fire.

[Big D]

Hi all,

A few more pictures of progress.

While I had the turret sitting at the right height, I checked the length of the seat towers. In an earlier post I mentioned the fact that there seemed to be two different seat tower lengths to allow for the armoured floor. I have now confirmed that these seat towers will be the right length for the floor I’ve made. There is about 5mm clearance from what I can see. Not a lot of room but it should be fine.

I finalised the front pipe sections of the turret seat framework while I had it fitted in the turret and have since welded the seating framework all together and painted it so it will be ready to bolt in once the turret is ready. I have emailed some suppliers to get prices on the seat bases and backs so hopefully I will hear back from them soon.

Would anyone have any pictures of where the gun foot pedal firing control cables end up on the guns themselves? I can see that the foot pedals strike the bottom of the cables and push them upwards. Should the foot pedals have a torsion spring on them or similar? I’m just wondering what actually returns the cables to their start position?

I am still working on the fabrication of the steel rack around the exterior of the turret (refer the photo I ‘borrowed’ off the net). From what I’ve been told, the steel strap seems to be 1 ¼ “ wide and ¼ “ thickness, and it is 2” from the surface of the turret measured from the lower edge of the strap.

I would be interested to know how others have fabricated this rack. That is, by putting the correct bend in a length of strap of the right dimensions and then a fold at each end for the end mounts? The other way I thought about doing it was to get some steel cut to the profile of the turret and then cut it to the strap width. Any thoughts on the most economical way?

James - I'm still pondering what you said about the bullet holes in the turret. A couple of mates have also suggested I leave a couple there. As they say, it is after all, part of the history of the turret. I’m not sure I am convinced. I would like to be able to say the bullet damage was inflicted during the Battle of the Bulge but it is more likely to be the result of the turret being pounded on a gun range somewhere after the war! What are the thoughts of others?

The brake slave cylinders came back from the brake guy. He did all the work in his lunchtimes and I got the master cylinder and slave cylinders all sleeved at a very, very reasonable price. They look very good. I have a couple of replacement pistons and new cylinder cups coming from Belgium so will get these completed soon and ready to fit. I am going to give the throttle master and slave cylinders and the clutch master cylinder to the same guy and get him to do those as well.

[Big D]

The rest of the photos.

[colin jones]

Darryl, it sure is looking fantastic and your doing a very thorough job too. Is that some range shots on the turret as they look like great talking points. How is the engine and trans for the M8 going.

[Big D]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for that. If only I could work half as fast as you can, I'd be very happy. Your project seems to be fair racing along! Most impressive.

Yes, the bullet holes are most likely from it being a range target. You are right, they could be good talking points and I am starting to think it mightn't be a bad idea now....

I haven't started on the M8 engine as yet. The reconditioner still has the scout car engine but has promised to get that done in the next few months so I can have the scoutcar ready for Warbirds over Wanaka 2018. If the dosh permits, I might get him to start on the M8 engine after that.

[James P]

Big D, amazing work and dedication to doing it right with no cutting corners, total respect earned and given. Pock marks and bullet strikes, I have one bullet strike on a vehicle that there was no way in gods green earth I was going to restore out. If fact I took (and strongly suggest this) a page from the "Tank Overhaul" series where the Ferdinand at APG got restored and they painted the splash and strikes silver. My little bullet hole got silver POR15 brushed on which pretty much means it would be around on this earth longer then me and certainly makes it "pop". Looking at that struck turret front its just begging to be touched up, but that is 100% your call.

[David Dunlop]

Darryl. An interesting dilemma you have with the bullet holes on your turret. For what they are worth, my thoughts would be to totally fill and remove all penetrations, simply to protect the interior from exposure to unexpected weather/the elements, and sadly...stupid people. I would also do this where internal fittings need to be replaced.

If any of the impacts did not penetrate, but resulted in a spall of metal being punched off the interior wall, I would definitely leave those untouched. These would tell a huge story as to how those little bits of metal flying around the interior can be just as deadly to the crew as a complete penetration.

Lastly, on the exterior, I would probably remove some of the impacts where there were just too many, or it looked messy, interfered with kit installation, but keep some of the more interesting ones.

Enough said. It 's your toy. Enjoy!

David

[Big D]

Hi James and David

Thanks for the replies. You have all got me thinking again now. I will have another look at the turret and see if there are a couple of holes that I can keep there to keep it interesting without detracting too much from appearance etc.

I'll keep you posted.

[James P]

Big D
Thats fair, give it some thought and (fingers crossed) you save a couple holes and impacts on turret front that relate to the vehicles service and history. The absolute beauty of owning a MilVeh is it can look a little rough around the edges and have that "lived in" look going on. I feel it would not be disrespectful to your efforts and work invested nor to the vehicle leaving it a little shot up. One thing I think is goofy are owners who put those magnetic bullet holes on their vehicle..... but hey folks can feel free to do as they wish its their ride.

A vehicle is only "factory new"......................once, so you can take a little licence representing it how it would look in service.

[Big D]

Hi James,

Yes, that is a very good argument and you have me convinced now. I'll save a couple of the best ones!

[James P]

Good man, now I have to start talking you into taking a small modeling paint brush and some silver paint to make the strikes look like fresh, bright, hits on the metal.........it is only paint and easy to undo but adds something to the "the look".

[Big D]

Hi James

Hmm...nice idea. That would look good. Have you considered becoming a salesman? You have missed your calling!

[James P]

Big D, many thanks for the kind words but I am just doing my humble part and offering advice, painting the splash marks and strikes the same subdued grey/silver as the brake cylinders would be just the ticket. Far and away better then those silly magnetic bullet holes folks here seem to have a thing for as you have actual hits on your armour.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Not a huge amount to report this time as I’ve been on an overseas holiday and then busy with a container load of goodies since we got back. Included in the container were some nice parts from Belgium and France (thanks to Jaap, Philippe and David) as per the pictures: 37mm ready rack, turret rear plate; some conduit, siren, NOS air cleaner; repro locker lids, oil pump, slave cylinder piston cups, and some other odds and ends.

I also managed to get hold of an air cleaner hose and headlight holder (thanks Roy) and acquired the correct driver seat (thanks Bill). With a bit of repair work the seat is now ready to fit. If nothing else, it has been a good time for collecting parts.

As far as the work on the turret goes, prior to doing some work on it, I did a wee exercise in tracking the bullet trajectories through the turret. After all the thought and discussion on whether to keep the bullet holes or not, I figured that I would keep those holes that told a story. As a result I have kept about 4-5 holes on each side of the turret where I could track the bullet through one side and then to, or through the other side. I figure that they will certainly be the basis of some discussion by observers. That was my logic anyway!

The few holes in the rear and front of the turret are now filled and the replacement pieces of turret skirt have been welded on. The skirt was going to be tricky for me as the replacement pieces I had were quite twisted so I got one of the guys in the engineering workshop to do this. It helps having the right equipment and expertise. The bearing faces that were damaged by bullets have been repaired and smoothed and the storage rack is being folded as we speak. I made up a steel block for one of the microphone hooks to go back into the turret. The other one had been cleaned out by a bullet. The replacement footman loops are also now in place. After that, we'll straighten the mounts for the gun ring and then it should be ready for a blast and a paint.

[Big D]

A few more photos.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Here are a few more pictures of the turret which is now nearly finished. The storage rack is fitted, footman loops welded on, turret skirt done, and ring mount supports repaired. There are a few bullet holes still there without the turret looking like Swiss (American) cheese. I still need to fit new dome clip buttons on the top of the turret for the canvas cover. All of the old ones have been broken off in the holes. These appear to have a thread of 10-32 so I will drill and retap the holes and source some of the dome clips with the hole in them and screw them onto the turret.

I am undecided (call it dithering) about what to do with the .50cal and the mounts. I have both a ring mount and an elevator mount with the right turret mounting plate, but have yet to decide which way to go. As you can see we have repaired the ring mount supports and I've also fitted the base part of the support for the front of the .50 cal in the elevator mount, so I am hedging my bets!

What's everyone's views about what works best? I think the ring mount looks cool and it is probably right for the year of manufacture of this M8. At the same time, the elevator mount could have its advantages.

[Big D]

Some more pictures.

[James P]

^ Damn fine work you are putting into that restoration, always a treat to look at the "as arrived" pics and see the progress to where you are today.

[David Herbert]

Obviously it's entirely down to personal choice but if it was my M8 I wouldn't go for the ring mount . I agree it looks cool but I think you will find it makes climbing in and out of the turret really hard work and the only way to stop it rusting is to oil/grease it, which gets on everyone that rides in the turret - who tend to be your guests. Another practical point is it makes the vehicle quite a bit taller which could make a difference to getting it into a building (possibly at an event if not at home base). To my eyes it also looks a bit less lean and more top heavy with the ring mount but beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Great job so far though.

David

[Big D]

Hi James,

Thanks for your continued comments. They always help with the motivation!


Hi David,

You make a couple of really good points. Height could be an issue dependent on where I eventually store it. I hadn't considered the other comment you made about rust prevention. A very good point and something else to ponder!

Thanks gents!

[Big D]

Hi all,

I’ve been a bit distracted with other projects over the last few weeks but there has been some more progress on the M8.

I’ve been working on the wiring from the instrument panel and this is just about done now. The NOS loom I got was in good condition but I think made for a later panel, and I had to ‘make’ it fit. My instrument panel is an earlier one, but it doesn’t have the starter button below the ignition switch. It does have the switch hole on the other side, which presumably was the Fire Detector Test button.

Where should the starter button be? The manuals are a little unclear on this and the various photos I’ve seen haven’t helped. At this stage I am using the starter button in the Fire Detector Test button position and wiring it in there.

I have two oil pressure gauges. One is a Stewart Warner make. The one which is fitted is marked as 7412564, and ‘AC”. Is there an easy way to check what gauge will work with the sensor I have? Does anyone have any experience with this? I might as well fit the correct oil pressure gauge from the start if I can.

The brake slave cylinders with new stainless sleeves and new rubber boots are all assembled and ready to fit. I have some spare boots if anyone needs any.

I managed to source some canvas dome fittings for the turret from a company in the US. These have a 10-32 stud fitted into them so were ideal. I just had to drill out the old brass screws and run a tap into the holes and these are all in place now. The only thing left on the turret now is just some tweaking of the mounts for the gun ring. We straightened these before the ring arrived, but now that the ring is here, it looks like they should have been a little twisted anyway to make the gun ring mounting holes line up.

I am getting toward the end of the welding on the hull now. I was very fortunate to be able to get my hands on the front engine cross member I was after. Many thanks to John and Dave for that. The front cross member and rear engine cross member that we fabricated are now welded/fitted in place.

I now see that the reproduction rear engine mounts that I got are not quite right so I will need to modify them before they will work.

I fabricated some new exhaust pipe brackets and fitted these along with the shovel bracket.

One of the headlight guards is now welded in place. The other one will be here soon, as will the First Aid Kit bracket (thanks To Willy and Christophe), so I’ll fit these as soon as they arrive.

That should just about do on the hull before I get it sandblasted and painted.

I haven’t managed to source the rear plate that the engine covers hinge on, so it looks like I will need to fabricate this and the hinge mounts.
Can anyone confirm the dimensions of this plate and assist with any photos please? I have some photos of the top side of this piece but I don't have any photos from the underside showing how this is constructed.

[Big D]

More photos.

[Big D]

Hi all,

Here are a few more photos.

As I mentioned, the repro rear engine mounts that I got are not quite right. The hole spacing on the rear of the mount for the three bolts that attach it to the rear plate on the hull is not correct. The centre hole is pretty close, but a bit high. The side holes are also out.

The holes for bolting the engine mount to the cross member don’t match the sheet metal tray underneath as you can see in the picture. As a result, I am struggling to see exactly where these engine mounts should lie on the cross member I have just fitted. I can see that the rear left mount should be positioned a bit closer to the hull than the one on the other side but I’m not sure exactly where.

I need to position these mounts accurately so can someone please give me the measurements from the side of the hull to the centre of the engine mount hole, and the rear of the hull to the same centre of the engine mount hole. I presume the middle bolt hole on the end of the mount that attaches to the back of the hull, is in line with the centre of the engine mount hole itself. If I can get those measurements right, then I will make up a new plate for the end of these mounts to attach it to the rear of the hull, cut off the old end and weld on the new plate (if that makes sense!). Then I can drill holes in the cross member to bolt the mounts to it.

I also have some questions about the 37mm ready rack and the shelf above it. How is the ready rack secured to the hull? There are what appears to be mounting holes in the top corners of the rack at the front, but I don’t see anything obvious in the sponson to secure it. I realise of course, that this hull may not have had the ready rack, and instead had some other arrangement. I'm guessing there must have been a tab on each side of the sponson that the ready rack would have been bolted to?

The next question is around the door that covers the ready rack. I have a door to attach to the hull to cover the front of the ready rack. However, all the photos I’ve seen have the latch on the door coming up under the front lip of the radio shelf. To do that with mine, the radio shelf would need to be brought well forward in the sponson to do this. Is this normal? This would leave a large gap at the rear of the shelf between the shelf edge and the sponson wall. This is an original radio shelf I have in the sponson and as you can see if sits well behind the front edge of the ready rack. Do these shelves come in different sizes?

Any hints would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Big D]

The rest of the photos.