25 Pounder info needed.

[Private_collector]

The gun project just got a reprieve from being mothballed for a while, thanks to a genuine 25pdr spares box via Rob Nixon in the UK. Thanks Rob....again!
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She's a little rough in general, but I look forward to the challenge of restoring it to match my tool box. So far, all the screws have come out successfully, BUT in some locations screws appear to have been replaced by flat broad headed nails!?!?
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It's because of these nails, that I was forced to distort the lid hinges to remove them. Now they are exposed, I can get a pincer on them for removal. If possible, they will be replaced by screws identical to the majority of fixings. Perhaps they were there from manufacture but I hate them! The webbing handles have been redone at some stage, as the metal strips holding them on look very amateurish indeed. The screws for those are not a match for the others on the box either. I will probably try to improve on the appearance, by fashioning another set of fixings with more appropriate looking screws.
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Can't say I fathom why so many coats of paint have been applied, nor why someone went to the extraordinary lengths or puttying over majority of the screw heads. In my mind they would be better seen as a feature, and part of the detail.

I have heaps of the same canvas used on the tool box, and when I first made the deal to buy this box, I hunted down the guy who made me the custom sized, vegetable tanned, leather strip to secure the canvas cover to edges of the lid. It actually arrived a couple of days before the box got here (which was today).

Metal parts will be sandblasted then blued. Timber will be sanded mechanically after a liberal costing of paint stripper to most of the wood. I can see I'll be using a few wipes of wood filler, while trying my hardest to retain detail of the timber jointing.

[rnixartillery]

Tony,

I'm happy it arrived safely, That new postage service does save a few quid but following the tracking details certainly takes a bit of do'in !

Rob.................rnixartillery.

Ah ps, the metal strips holding the webbing handles are correct and yes quite crude.

[Private_collector]

Well, in that case I won't muck with them, Rob.
What about the use of wide head nails instead of screws, in some places. Is that something that was original too? I'm hoping not, but if so, I may need to rethink replacing them with screws.

[rnixartillery]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Well, in that case I won't muck with them, Rob.
What about the use of wide head nails instead of screws, in some places. Is that something that was original too? I'm hoping not, but if so, I may need to rethink replacing them with screws.

Now they should be slotted countersunk screws !

Rob...............rnixartillery.

[Private_collector]

This is getting interesting. After I removed one of the timber lid strengthening pieces (heavily affected by wood rot & filled), and a large portion of the canvas cover, I made a discovery about what I thought were nails helping hold the brackets on. They aren't nails, that's for sure. There is a corresponding, but larger, flat section on the back of them. They must be original, because the canvas surely has never been off before, and these sit beneath that canvas layer. For some bizarre reason they must have chosen to use these in manufacture. Take a look for yourselves.
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First photo is the top side of box lid, after canvas stripped back. You can clearly see five round metal surfaces.
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Those correspond to two in each lid hinge, and one at rear of the latch. What a lot of effort when screws would have done fine. Especially if the ones I've been trying to get out are anything to go by! Now I'm in a dilema. I cannot simply slap the hinges back down on the....whatever they are, and I don't want to obliterate them. Might have to sleep on that.
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Another curious component is the box corner braces. This too is an odd design. I guess they must have had good reason to stamp them with a raised portion to take countersunk screws, but damned if I know it. The simple brackets on my tool box would have been easier to make surely? The metal is noticably thinner on this box, so maybe the stamped (or perhaps embossed would be a better description) surface is to compensate for reduced overall bracket thickness, which would be too thin for rebate to take the countersunk screws!

[rob love]

Many of the British style chests use rivets for part of the retention of things like the rope handle blocks, hinges and hasps. In some cases, it was to prevent opening a locked box by simply removing some of the screws.

I would agree that the stamped corners would be to make them thicker for the use of the flat headed screws. It may have been a way to save metal. If you think about it, how many miles of metal strip twice the thickness would have been used otherwise to build crates. I have a large number of the bren chests here, and they simply used the heavier metal with countersunk holes for the corners.

[Private_collector]

That all adds up then, Rob.

My intention is to retain that rivet system, in appearance anyway. Because I've pulled the hinges over those rivets, to get them free, they won't serve their function, but I can still keep them looking right. I will shave a tiny bit more from the holes in hinges where those holes were attached with the rivet. Then they should go back together without force, and not look too far 'wrong'.
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Yesterday I chose a new piece of timber to make a pair of stiffening braces for top of the lid. I believe it's some type of oak, possibly Tasmanian. Thickness is correct, but width will require cutting down. The orignal timber braces were not healthy. One far worse than the other, but if making one, might as well make both. The original/s will be filed away for referring to in any future need.

The box and lid are now stripped back to either bare timber or initial thin coat of color. They have to dry well, before I do further work on them. Next stage is filling imperfections. I intend to try and save some original markings stamped on lower edge of both short sides. Should be easier to read once I sand there.....very lightly!

I've ordered the three types of countersunk, slot head, wood screws that were originally used. The total cost, including shipping is $77.00AUD, but that is partly due to the 'job lots' of each being in excess of quantity I need for this particular project, and partly because they are coming from UK. They'll come in handy elsewhere, so I don't worry about $$$/£££ there.
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Tonight, for want of something else to do, I made the template to cut the replacement canvas lid cover. I have heaps of the same canvas used on the tool box, so they will match. I will use same font for creating stencilling also. Didn't find any stencilling on this box. That's probably because it had 1,000 layers of badly applied paint, of several colors.
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I'll post some photos of the box in it's bare state tomorrow evening.