1958 Ford C500 Army Fire Service Truck

[rob love]

Dean
Sorry but no number that I can find. It would appear that someone pinched the King Seagrave plate from it. When I get to restoring the truck, perhaps something will show up.

[DeanJNickerson]

Originally Posted by rob love

Dean
Sorry but no number that I can find. It would appear that someone pinched the King Seagrave plate from it. When I get to restoring the truck, perhaps something will show up.

Rats. Thanks. I can't remember where it was on 5717 (saw it in 1999), but I remember that it wasn't hard to find. The Archives at the Canadian Museum of Science & Technology has KS delivery files, so they may have VINs. I'll check my records to see if I can access any other numbers.

[rob love]

As near as I can tell by the shadows, there was a King Seagrave plate on the bottom left front of the box. No idea if it had the serial number.

I do have the Canadian Forces Registration number of mine, as well as the other that was here at Shilo. Would love to be able to track which base mine was from. Please let us know if you have any luck with the numbers and which bases were which. Also let us know where on the box you found the KS serial.

[DeanJNickerson]

I checked some of the information I have in my files, which is a pile of documents photocopied from King-Seagrave company records. It's a sort of delivery list and some of the entries have engine or pump numbers, which could prove useful in this instance...except the truck isn't listed. There's a note on the first page indicating that trucks delivered to the Federal Government aren't part of the package. I checked and sure enough, no luck.

So...the Science & Tech Museum Archives may be the best bet. However, I haven't been there in years and I don't know if this is something they could/would check. The Archives have service files for King-Seagrave trucks donated to them by a former employee. They can be pretty comprehensive (some have delivery photos), but it varies from truck to truck. In this case, we don't know which of the trucks we're looking at.

In terms of the Regina delivery point, I assumed that it was for Dundurn. I realise that Dundurn is closer to Saskatoon, but thought there might have been a depot there or something. It's entirely plausible that these trucks were moved around from base to base - the Picton truck was pretty close to home, but that base was closed soon after unification. Anyway, if you found it close to Shilo, it makes sense that it was on the base there at some point unless Dundurn shipped their stuff there for disposal. For that matter, there's no guarantee that the Picton truck was delivered to Picton. Kingston is nearby, so maybe they were swapped at some point. Or for that matter, they could have loaded it on a railcar and shipped it from/to wherever.

The spot where you can see the shadow is almost certainly where the KS plate was. I don't remember where I saw it on the Picton truck, but I do remember that it was easy to find, likely on the body near the pump. So the person who removed it did a nice job of covering up the identity. I doubt there are any similar plates elsewhere. Newer rigs had one on the inside of the door, but not the 50s era trucks.

Final thing - I'm a newbie here, but I'm assuming that there's no way to track it using the CFR? I've seen CFRs on other fire trucks, so if there's a way to do that, it would be helpful.

[rob love]

CFRs won't work as the computer only keeps records from 1978 and onwards. The trucks were gone by that point, or the CFRs have been reused since then.

The trucks were range fire trucks, so they would most likely be at bases that had ranges. In the case of Dundurn, Regina would have been the support base at the time. The fact that my truck has prairie command decals indicate it found it's way to reserve use rather than regular force.

[DeanJNickerson]

Originally Posted by rob love

CFRs won't work as the computer only keeps records from 1978 and onwards. The trucks were gone by that point, or the CFRs have been reused since then.

The trucks were range fire trucks, so they would most likely be at bases that had ranges. In the case of Dundurn, Regina would have been the support base at the time. The fact that my truck has prairie command decals indicate it found it's way to reserve use rather than regular force.

Thanks. I figured the CFRs were a non-starter. Too bad, because I've seen a number of pics of the late 50s FWD / Thibault pumpers delivered to the RCAF that carry them.

Incidentally, I've taken photos on a few different bases in recent years and have never seen any sort of fleet number affixed. Someone once told me that the number on the CANADA plate serves as a sort of CFR. Is this true?

Do you think it's plausible that it served at Dundurn at some point? I believe they currently have three of the most recent batch of range trucks (2012 International / Fort Garry) in service.

[rob love]

The number on the plates are the CFR (Canadian Forces Registration) number. The plate does not include the year of acceptance mind you...a complete CFR would be 71-01234. The 71 will be the year of acceptance (not necessary the model year). However, the DND will not re-use the 5 digits again until the old vehicle is long gone.

I do think it was in Dundurn, but moved over to Shilo at some point. Fire-trucks are high cost/low density, so their lifespan is much longer than say something like a pickup truck or staff car. The DND will move vehicles around between bases or units for reasons like fleet rotation, redundancy. etc. In those days, it was not unusual for the regular force to get a new truck, and the old one, if it still had usable life, be assigned to the reserves.

There was one still on this base with the base firehall into the 70s, but it was not this truck. Several range fire trucks are held with the base engineers.....I suspect this may have been the case with this truck back in the day, where it was possibly held in support of the summer militia concentrations.

I confirmed with the original purchaser of this firetruck that he bought it out of Shilo.