Replacing Pistons and Such 1935 era

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

While not a military vehicle REO did make military vehicles in World War Two, Vietnam ... So the company fits here under "restoring".

What options would there be if once I start to work on my 1935 REO Gold Comet motor that has not run for 3 or 4 decades that the pistons and cylinders have seized and are unserviceable? REO made their own engines at the time. Did REO stick to the same dimensions for their engines over a long period of time so there may be some degree of inter-changeability within the same company?

Can different manufacturer's pistons be adapted to fit? Or is it a case of taking a relatively intact sample to an engineer with a request to make six of these please?

I would like to start on the restoration mid next year. So I have some time to explore options. What have other people done when working on 81 year old engines of unknown qualities.

I am going to buy a flexible inspection scope to put down a spark plug hole. I have also been putting a mix of diesel and CRC down spark plug holes into the cylinder at intermittent intervals.

Supposedly the engine was running when it was parked up I could be pleasantly surprised and it could all be pristine. However, I tend to work to the worse case scenario - you know "ye of little faith".

Kind Regards
Lionel

[David Herbert]

I assume that you have not dismantled the engine yet. The first thing to do is completely dismantle it, making sure that you can identify where EVERY bearing, bearing cap, piston and valve came from. Though they look the same they are not and if good enough to reuse they must go back where they came from. All the drilled holes for oil will need cleaning out as these can be blocked with dried crud and will destroy an otherwise good engine.

Once you know what you need I would first look for a REO owners club/forum in the USA and tap into their knowledge. Also there must be one or more specialist vintage REO parts dealers. I would be suprised if you can't find NOS pistons for your engine. It is certainly possible that pistons from another engine could be made to fit but finding which engine is the challenge. Making new pistons from scratch is again possible but by the 1930s they had become quite sophisticated and it would be very expensive to get one set made so this really is the last resort.

Whatever you do, it is important to clean the bores and remove all remains of oil that has turned to tar before you try to turn the engine. don't think that flushing the sump with diesel and putting a big bar on the flywheel to force it to turn is ok. You might get it to run but not for long.

Good luck, David

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

...

What options would there be if once I start to work on my 1935 REO Gold Comet motor that has not run for 3 or 4 decades that the pistons and cylinders have seized and are unserviceable? REO made their own engines at the time. Did REO stick to the same dimensions for their engines over a long period of time so there may be some degree of inter-changeability within the same company?

...

Kind Regards
Lionel

There has been a lot of chatter on MLU about rust removal, preparing and working on very rusty assemblies. For example there is a long thread on reverse electrolysis, which brought out many very good conversation points. Then there is a second, and I find more intriguing, discussion of prolonged immersion of large parts in raw molasses. Someone had a before and after photo of a Stuart final drive. Red and scary at first, then steel and clean after. That convinced me.

In your situation, if the engine block has been removed from the frame, I'd favour the molasses bath. You 've already scheduled work on it later in the future. So you have time on your side. Molasses by all reports has none of the 'potential' metallurgical effects that reverse electrolysis does.

Over to you while you do your research. And keep us posted.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Hello All,

Can different manufacturer's pistons be adapted to fit? Or is it a case of taking a relatively intact sample to an engineer with a request to make six of these please?

Lionel

Hi Lionel,

When the time comes, one source of pistons is JP Pistons in Adelaide. If not in their catalogue they can do one-off small production runs. They may also be able to match pistons based on your dimensions if not listed as REO pistons. See their website.

As mentioned however there is a good possibility you can find NOS ones from one of the many people engaged in vintage parts here or overseas. Just requires a bit of detective work to find what is out there and what is used in other engines if there is any commonality.

Good luck with your project.

Cheers,

[Lionelgee]

Hello David, Terry and Jacques,

Thank you for the information The benefits of a large shed is that projects can sit inside and not be exposed to the elements while their owner concentrates on other tasks. I hope to have a rather time consuming long term project have all its boxes ticked and squared away by April 2017. Working on the REO Speed Wagon will be my reward.

I am a member of the REO Club of America and I frequently scan the wider internet for parts. Gold Comet parts from the era do not come up on the radar very often. I am going to take some photographs of places where items are missing off my truck. I will send them to a club member who has the same truck in the US so they can take photographs of what should be on my truck. Hopefully they will also have some hints as where to get some goodies from. I am just waiting for the current club magazine to arrive so I can source their contact details as person with the same truck as mine is the designated Technical Consultant for the era. I think the magazine has arrived in Australia. Upon its arrival it was probably tied to a snail and courtesy of Australia Post's new slooooow mail service may wend its way towards me before April!

I also have a copy of the Hollander Interchange book 1920's to 1948

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

seen this Lionel

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...ry=Advertising


http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...ry=Advertising

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

seen this Lionel

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...ry=Advertising


http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/ar...ry=Advertising

G'day Mike,

No I had not seen the two advertisements on Trove. Thank you for posting up the links.

The top link features two lots of "1935" the straight vertical grille is from the financial year 1934-1935. The more slant back tip truck style is from the financial year 1935-1936. Mine is the nice one - oops the 1935-36. I did find that they were referring to the "Gold Crown" engines in the heavier capacity trucks. I dug out my collection of REO advertising folders I have been collecting over the years and they too say "Gold Crown" for the heavier truck like mine. The Gold Comet engines came out around World War II.

So my truck has a Gold Crown motor. It will help me use the right name for the engine when I go looking for parts The light weight trucks came with the Silver Crown engines..

So that is good news about getting the name of the engine right

I had a win today - I found a radiator cap online - cross fingers that it fits as the truck did not have one when I bought it. It seems a common theme in photographs of 1935 REO Speed Wagon trucks that are on the internet. I have tried to find an accurate photograph to make sure what one looks like. Some real flash ones were available with wings as optional extras. The advertising brochures show a mix of fancy to plain dome tops.

The second link has the 1936-1937 model that has the curve in the centre of the front bumper.

Thanks again for the links Mike.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Mike K]

Lionel

There are many more REO truck adverts on the Trove website . I even spotted a REO car advert in the 30's , never knew about them .

The Trove site allows you to browse newspaper adverts by newspaper eg the Sydney Morning Herald or the Melbourne Argus . It also selects adverts with illustrations . Mike

[maple_leaf_eh]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23935 scroll partway down for the M5 before and after images

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Lionel

There are many more REO truck adverts on the Trove website . I even spotted a REO car advert in the 30's , never knew about them .

The Trove site allows you to browse newspaper adverts by newspaper eg the Sydney Morning Herald or the Melbourne Argus . It also selects adverts with illustrations . Mike

Hello Mike,

REO was developed by Ransom Eli Olds as a new company after he had a big falling out with the board of an automotive company he previously established .... Oldsmobile. He had to leave the name behind so he set up REO.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23935 scroll partway down for the M5 before and after images

G'day Terry,

Thanks for the link about molasses - it is great stuff. I am not sure of what state or country your "on the river flats in a poor part of town" is? Your description from your signature line. If you look at mine it says Bundaberg - Queensland Bundaberg is one of the main sugar cane growing areas. I have sugar cane across the road in front of my house and about 50 metres from my back fence

There are some alloys that get eaten by the mix though. I have to dig around and re familiarise myself with which ones.

P.S. With the magic of the Interwebby ... Accessed November 13, 2016 from, http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/...slowpoke-users Molasses will start "moon crater" pitting cast iron if left in too long. Not a problem really on brackets, but engine blocks will pit on the machined surfaces.

From the same forum/thread - http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/...=matthew-users Be warned I let a Cylinder Head set in this solution for over 2 weeks and it started to eat the Cast Iron. I should have pulled this no more than 3 days.

From another forum...The Australian Land Rover Owner's Accessed November 13, 2016 from, http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...ml#post1356303 DON'T place Any non-Ferris metals in molasses as you wont get it back. It converts alloy and brass to a horrible sandy mess in the bottom of the tub.

Got it - this was the old post I was looking for ... Accessed November 13, 2016 from, http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...ml#post1418961 A 1:4 (molasses:water) will eat white metals like aluminium, lead and zinc. Put a seized block into a bath and in a couple of weeks you'll have a clean block with the rings sitting in the hollow bores. The author of the message used the properties of molasses to their favour ... Accessed November 13, 2016 from, http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...ml#post1420119 However if you have a seized block where you have tried all the regular methods to get the pistons out, the fact that it eats white metals, is a benefit! New pistons are easier to find than a 1948 side plate Landy block.

Hello Diana


Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I had today Saturday off from study So I did some research online....

I found a website that had a post "REO Serial Number Locations. Accessed November 19, 2016 from, https://reoclub.org/uploads/REO_Seri..._Locations.pdf

The booklet had this drawing of a "Gold Crown engined REO Speed Wagons to mid 1930s"

I made an enlargement of the image and printed out a copy and went into my shed armed with a torch and a brush. I have run out of degreaser to clean the side of the engine and I need to upgrade to a new wire brush as my old one fell to pieces. I have caught sight of what I think could be some stamped numbers/letters.

After I make a trip into town tomorrow to the local autoparts store to get more degreaser and a wire brush I might solve some mysteries and be able to identify my REO's engine and other details.

I will then dig and uncover the spare motor that could have been the original one for the truck or bought just as a spare. Tomorrow I hope to have some answers. It does have "Chrome Nickle" written on the engine block in raised letters - they were relatively easy to see beneath decades of grease and dirt.

Oh Second drawing is what I hope is the Australian location of the Identification Numbers. Hopefully the engine numbers stayed on the same side in both left and right hand drive versions of the truck? Cross fingers

Kind Regards
Lionel

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

G'day Terry,

Thanks for the link about molasses - it is great stuff.
...

P.S. With the magic of the Interwebby ... Molasses will start "moon crater" pitting cast iron if left in too long. ...

From the same forum/thread .. Be warned I let a Cylinder Head set in this solution for over 2 weeks and it started to eat the cast iron. I should have pulled this no more than 3 days.

From another forum... DON'T place Any non-ferrous metals in molasses as you won't get it back. It converts alloy and brass to a horrible sandy mess in the bottom of the tub.

Got it - this was the old post I was looking for ... A 1:4 (molasses:water) will eat white metals like aluminium, lead and zinc. Put a seized block into a bath and in a couple of weeks you'll have a clean block with the rings sitting in the hollow bores. The author of the message used the properties of molasses to their favour

...

Kind Regards
Lionel

I'm in Canada, and the quote is from an old TV show's throwaway joke.

Your research on molasses' reactions is very interesting. It goes to show that not all metals are as durable as we would like to believe. My understanding is that when rusted steel was the intended material, the results met expectations without the chemical solvents leftovers. I will be careful!