Achilles

[Harry Moon]

Originally Posted by jdmcm

Harry I do not think you are representing this replica honestly. It was not "restored" from a range target...it was a complete fabrication starting with a tub from a forestry yarder...not even a tank hull. Yes it is a incredible piece of fabrication but a restoration it is not. I have seen the articles in the local paper where the owner and chief fabricator claims the hull and turret were located in a scrap yard in Calgary...I think such outright misrepresentations shed a poor light on the entire MV community. It has always amazed me that instead of being proud of the skill required to fabricate this machine from scratch, the owner is intent on deceiving us all into thinking it is a genuine M10 much less an Achilles. Perhaps the owner would like to provide the serial # from the hull of this "range wreck"?

I never said restored but if that's your thing maybe we can debate that someday.

[Frank v R]

Bruce, don't break an antenna, go wave the flag

[jdmcm]

No Harry the dark side of this hobby is having the military police "invite" you to an interview at 39Brigade ASU to see if you have any knowledge about parts stolen from a DND monument Sherman tank entrusted to the same people who can't seem to tell the difference between a replica and a real M10. How did the Investigating officer phrase it...oh yeah...THEFT OF A WEAPONS SYSTEM...that's what they call it evidently when you steal the cannon from a tank. You want to talk dark side? These guys keep up their crap and we will all get legislated right out of this hobby....replicas will be all we will have left.

I am not opposed to replicas in any way shape or form...they are great and do give people a great way into what has become an increasingly expensive hobby...I fabricate stuff for my vehicles all the time...be proud of what you can do...what I am opposed to is intentional deception...and thieves...

[rob love]

Originally Posted by jdmcm

No Harry the dark side of this hobby is having the military police "invite" you to an interview at 39Brigade ASU to see if you have any knowledge about parts stolen from a DND monument Sherman tank entrusted to the same people who can't seem to tell the difference between a replica and a real M10. How did the Investigating officer phrase it...oh yeah...THEFT OF A WEAPONS SYSTEM...that's what they call it evidently when you steal the cannon from a tank. You want to talk dark side? These guys keep up their crap and we will all get legislated right out of this hobby....replicas will be all we will have left.

I am not opposed to replicas in any way shape or form...they are great and do give people a great way into what has become an increasingly expensive hobby...I fabricate stuff for my vehicles all the time...be proud of what you can do...what I am opposed to is intentional deception...and thieves...

I'll assume this is related to the incredible shrinking tank thread that used to be on the G503 forum. I always wondered what the conclusion to that was.

[jdmcm]

Rob there was a real investigation, being an armor owner I was politely asked to come for a taped "interview" and to explain what I knew of what had happened...and if any of the missing parts had found the way to me...I know great attempts were made by all involved to sweep the whole thing under the rug...strangely the "Achilles" was accidentally "restored" with the missing engine decks and armored doors and exhaust/muffler set up missing from the monument tank...once the G503 thread ramped up the heat...those parts were stacked up behind the CMEC museum...but as far as I know, never returned. The complete gun was replaced with a "replica" and the actual gun and mantlet found their way to the home of the "Achilles Restorer" himself. What the outcome ever was I don't know...as you can see fudging the origin of the M10 is just the tip of what Harry aptly called the "dark side" of the MV hobby....me I have few other choice words to describe this bunch...

[ajmac]

One does have to be careful of replicas (or more correctly a pastiche), I've stood on the line at Beltring and the W&PR shows and heard Joe public telling there kids, "yea, that's a WW2 German Panzer and that's a 251 halftrack", when in actual fact all the German vehicles are scratch built pastiches using 1960s FV423 running gear or OT810s. They are great pieces of workmanship, but they DO NOT accurately represent wartime German Armour! Its so commonplace now that I think its confusing the general public.

Taking an original machine, producing engineering drawings and manufacturing new parts that could be interchanged with original is a replica. Building something that looks sort of like the original from 25 meters away is a pastiche!

[Harry Moon]

There was no theft, that was the conclusion of the trumped up investigation initiated by big ego's. Old news but some people are a blight on the hobby, look in the mirror.